Thread: Still learning after one year...

Today, after one year of straight razor shaving, I made yet another personal discovery leading to further improvement of my shaving results.

I have always been doing ATG passes. During my very first shave, I just couldn't stop after my WTG-pass. Too much fun. And I expected to be nicked, which hadn't happened at that point, so I relathered and continued ATG. Oh yes, I nicked myself then, twice, if I recall.

Stretching the skin, together with a proper shaving angle were the first things I concentrated on.
I always stretched with my hand behind the blade. WTG, pulling the skin up while shaving down. ATG, pulling the skin down, while shaving upwards.

Today, it occured to me that, while going against the grain, pulling the skin down might not be the best approach for me. Although this stretches the skin very well, it does nothing for lifting the hairs up. If I place my hand before the blade, which may sound just a bit awkward, that really sets the hairs upright. So I started going ATG at the top of my cheecks, instead of down at the neck, following the blade working its way down with little upward "scoops" with my strechting hand pulling up the freshly shaved skin.

The difference for my shave is incredible:
1. I have a few spots on my jawline and near the carotid, that previously only got BBS with a smiling blade, in its prime on the honing scale, on a good shaving day. Most of those spots are completely smooth now.
2. The titillating freshness of a close shave lasted 6 hours longer, till the evening, instead of noon.
3. I experienced none of the usual mild irritation by multiple passes over the aforementioned difficult spots.

This technique might be completely obvious for many of you, and completely worthless for others, but for me it has been one of those epiphanies that seem to mark my straight shaving learning curve.
I felt it might be worth mentioning.

Best regards,
Bart.

Hey, Bart - Yes, that is a great tip! Sometimes it's difficult getting the fingers in front of the blade depending on the area you are working on, but I understand.

Here is one suggestion that has puzzled me about shaving ATG. Tell me what you think:

I have a large arsenal of razors that I shave with, about 80. (I know, I know....) Anyway, I have noticed that some seem to like, be able to, shave ATG better than others. The common thing seems that they give more "comfortable" shaves, perhaps the edge is smoother, etc... I'm not sure.

So the other day, I'm reading a thread in the Hone section titled "How much slurry on a Coticule?" This perked my interest because I used to use a Coticule before I got in to the Shaptons on glass. I read a post of yours where you described what slurry was all about and that it "dulled" and perhaps "smoothed out" the edge - and that there were some things you could do to your edges by using either light or heavy slurry, etc., etc..... S*it! You really got my attention with that one, Bart!!!! I thought about this a lot, because I was always confused about slurry, and if anything, I was never sucessful using it. My edges deteriorated, it seemed. You helped verify that fact for me. Once I started only using water with my Coticule, my edges improved. Anyway, I have some razors that have never really hit the mark that I know they are capable of. Oh, yea, the shaves are good, but.....could be better, and going ATG has alway been my proof of a great edge. (sorry for going on and on here) - So I'm thinking about "slurry" and smoother edges...... "should I bring out the Cotucule and slip it in to my shaptons somewhere near the polishing stage, with slurry?" - or what? All right, I had an idea! I'll created a slurry on my 16K shapton after I have completed my normal routien with the 16K and before I finish on my Nakayama. I did this with a Cotigura stone, and it produced a very nice white, milky slurry. I had a DD, Goldenedge that never gave me the shave I wanted. So I touched it up on the 16K, and then did about 20 light laps with the slurry, then finished on the Nakayams, about 20 laps. No Chromium Oxide this time, 60 laps on the red latigo, and 40 laps on my horsehide, and I got the smoothest shave of my life!!! ATG was beautiful, smooth, two passes, BBS, alcohol A/S, with absolutely no sting. Fabulous!

This is the 1st time I've talked about doing this, because I wanted to try more razors to be sure I have something going here. So far I've done six razors by using slurry on the 16K shapton, and each one has been beautiful with the same results. I'm doing anywhere from 12 to 20 light passes with the slurry.

I appologize for messing around on your parade here, but you had a hand in this for me, and since you were talking about the ATG, I just wanted to share this with you. I know a lot of guys have difficulty going ATG. I have always felt it was the edge! I think this method, and whatever finisher they are using, would help. Perhaps this method is not new to a lot of our experienced honers, but it was a new one for me that has ....what? added to my arsenal of methods to get that "Perfect Edge" (sorry, Howard).

Regards,

Steve (BTW, I read everything you and Glen post) I have, like a lot of people here, become a real fan of both of you. Thanks for all the good information!

You make me blush, Steve.
Thank you for your kind words.

I too have been experimenting with coticule slurry on other hones.
It does miracles for smoothing out the aggressiveness of a fairly new DMT1200.
However, I don't own a Shapton 16K, so I can't really comment on that, but it sure is an interesting experiment. Coticule garnets are extremely hard crystal structures. The ceramic particles of the Shapton as well. They could be grinding each other down on top of that hone, leaving just the right mixture of cutting media for your razors. Quite interesting and puzzling.
You just made it harder for me to withstand the lure of buying one of the high-grit synthetic hones.

About razor sharpness and the ATG pass, I totally agree. In my experience, if a razor lacks some sharpness, all you pay WTG is a bit of closeness, but ATG it really becomes troublesome. IMHO, with your collection of reputable finishing hones, I don't think smoothness of the edge is much of an issue, but I do believe that final 0.05 micron that makes an edge with a width of 0.45 perform better than a 0.50 edge, can be very elusive. Having different results on different razors with the same honing approach kind of prooves that. If adding 20 laps with coticule slurry on a Shapton, gives you better consistency in your results, than that's just great.

At the same time, trying to steer a bit on topic again, the shaving technique tip I described in my initial post, has done at least as much for the closeness of my shave, than a few of my latest break throughs in honing.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

Today, it occured to me that, while going against the grain, pulling the skin down might not be the best approach for me. Although this stretches the skin very well, it does nothing for lifting the hairs up. If I place my hand before the blade, which may sound just a bit awkward, that really sets the hairs upright. So I started going ATG at the top of my cheecks, instead of down at the neck, following the blade working its way down with little upward "scoops" with my strechting hand pulling up the freshly shaved skin.

Hi Bart,

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll try this this night, got to decide which razor should I use for this...
While I don't do ATG because of the same reasons as you pointed out in your first shaves, I'm going to give it a try in some of least sensitive zones of my face. Also, As some SRP members members stated in other thread, I'll do an mixed XTG-ATG pass, that is, not completly against the grain, but in the middle of agains and accross the grain. Wish me luck
By far, the neck is by trouble zone. I have hair growing in several directions which makes the ATG a little difficult. So, I'm going to try your new approach above the jaw line.

Originally Posted by Leon

So, I'm going to try your new approach above the jaw line.

Well... good luck.
I'm curious to find out if others benefit from this as much as I have. Maybe I just have the weirdest face of the Northern hemisphere. Shouldn't we have a contest for that, here on SRP?
Mr. Troublesome Beard. The winner receives a Maestro Livi-special, and a lifetime free honing by Lynn. The girls of the Ladies Corner can be the jury.

But seriously, let me know how it goes, ok?

Best regards,
Bart.

I read this yesterday evening and it clicked in that most pleasurably obvious of ways. Tried it out this morning and it still feels good some 13 hours later. Thanks, Bart.

Bart,

I've also discovered that just easily stretching from both in front of and behind the blade where possible lets me get a much closer against the grain shave without losing any comfort.

pulling the skin in such a way as to force the beard hair down flat against the skin can result in pain for me especially under my chin

congratulations on your findings and good luck in your furthering shaving quests

I found out today that stretching my skin helps a lot while shaving. Maybe I will see the difference between pulling from different sides of the blade. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Bart

let me know how it goes, ok?

Best regards,
Bart.

It was a nice shave. I did manage to achieve ATG-BBS in some new spots, so I'm now gaining new terrains for ATG on my face. It's just a matter of getting the best technique, so I'll have that in mind from now on and try to find the best combination for angle, blade and hand position for each zone in my face depending on the direction the hair grows.
Bart, I also have a complex facial hair. When I mean complex I mean tough hair growing in several directions, but your tips have helped me.
Thanks