Thread: Nothing against the Barbers

Good job gathering the videos. I noticed the backhand shaving strokes and skin-tauting moves. Did he do some "buffing" at one point? Every barber develops a unique method of getting the shave done. They make it look easy. For me shaving to Big Band Music from the '40's Jitterbug Era might cause a bloody mistake or two; however, Stropping to Artie Shaw's BEGIN THE BEGUINE is sublime. It came out in 1937 and is still the best single piece of music ever played( in my humble opinion). I have nearly every version. The words of that tune are pure enchantment. (Romanticism has perhaps reared its ugly head). Ella Fitzgerald can do it right.
Is the Waldorf Saloon only for shaves? Has anyone been there? If my Lotto Texas hits I'll be there and make some more videos.

What fascinated me was the stropping. I couldn't believe how much slack he allowed in the strop. He went to town with that slurry stone too. Very instructive. The shaving vid was cool too. I could feel the hot towel and the massaging of the after shave. It has been thirty years since I had a barber shop shave and I still remember it.

Yea, the slack stropping still puzzles me, even today. He's probably saying "Whatever works for me" and breadknifing the razor when no one is looking. Ya think?

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Yea, the slack stropping still puzzles me, even today. He's probably saying "Whatever works for me" and breadknifing the razor when no one is looking. Ya think?

Alan, you forgot to add a: "YMMV" to what he's probably saying there.


Chris L

I thought you might like that ChrisL! I volunteer to go to Dublin and make sure that he gives good shaves and I'll ask him about his lack of stropping skill . . . maybe after the shave is done.

I'll PM you guys my address so you can send the airfare.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I have to agree with Alan here.
The multi-hundred and multi-thousand post members are very vocal, but they are not the majority.
I think it was Joe who once made a statistic, and the majority of the members never get beyond a 100 posts or so, and only stay long enough to learn basic shaving and razor maintenance.
The majority is also not expert at honing.

Wonder why so many newbs leave here? Couldn't be the condescending attitudes thrown at them by some of the "More Experienced" members. Nor would it likely be the Discouraging "advice" given by them as well. Sometimes perhaps our hobbies get in the way of our hobbies.
**That's irrellevant though**
I am no expert, nor will I ever claim to be, but if you take up working on my helicopter for a hobby, I garuntee you will learn a lot of things that I may not know. But you will not likely know everything that I know. I do it everyday all day rain or shine. It is my job. I seriously doubt that the barber that my grand/great grand father went to gave a poor or even mediocre shave. It was a different time and a different generation people used to take pride in their work. Only a handfull of people still do.

Just my two cents.

Kevint,

Going back over your post I get the sincere view that because you shave fewer people and don't have to use a barber hone that you can achieve a single shave better than the tradesmen. I follow that logic pretty well.

I think my perspective is that in general barbers were better because they shaved so many people and had so many nearby resources for support.

The other thing that hits me is that a big difference between the hobbiest and the professional is that you get paid to do it. I think getting paid for it forces you to attain a higher level of quality.

Since the thread has been hijacked already, I shall cut in here as well.

First, thanks to you and your fellow old hands for providing the forum. It is excellent. However...

Originally Posted by Lynn

When I started the first forum 8 years ago, there was virtually no consolidated information where people could come and learn the art of straight razor shaving. Now we have many forums and have had the opportunity to learn from thousands of people learning as well as share the experiences from the few long time straight razor shavers. As a result, we probably have more knowledge now than ever in this area.

When I switched from DE shaving to straights, I first came to B&B. They site is better optimised for search engines, and they have this seemingly wonderful illustrated tutorial for beginners. In hindsight, that set me back by about two months, but life is a bitch.

Now then, SRP has undoubtedly the most knowledge anywhere on the web. But it is utterly dis-organised. Coming back to Bruno's point about vocal multi-posters: A lot of time and effort here is spent re-iterating what has been said many times before. That may be a design decision, but it will not further the cause of this forum.

Why? Because the regulars (as you may want to call the experienced users with lots of postings) have reached a level of experience that cannot be reached other than by several years of experience in dealing with all aspects of straight shaving, honing in particular.

That may also explain the exit factor. For an average visitor to this forum, a few months will suffice to gather the knowledge necessary to obtain satisfactory shaves. They may even decide to keep sending off their dulled razors to a honemeister, rather than spend time and money buying hones and learning the skill. I decided to learn to hone my own razors, but the money factor was considerable (again, many thanks to Joe, Simon and Ivan for their tremendous support), and I have only begun to learn the skill.

Coming back to knowledge management (and at the end of the day, that is what this discussion will boil down to, like it or not):

1. Forums are excellent for a quick exchange of information. They are bad for presenting existing knowledge.
2. Wikis are good for aggregating, and refining, knowledge.
3. IRC (aka "The Chat") is good for communication and exchanging ideas.

Courtesy of Dave's excellent, and outstanding, work here, all three options are available. Unfortunately, though, only the forum is used to its full extent, and beyond. The result is that a lot of energy is spent paraphrasing known truths (not least because newcomers are not offered a quick and dirty way to straight shaving other than your DVD (which is, of course, phenomenal, but takes some time to arrive in a beginner's inbox).

Interestingly, there recently was a discusssion on #srp whether pointing people towards the Wiki would result in a decrease of "familiarity" in the forums. Personally, I do not believe that will be the case. But it will mean a certain change in the tone of the forum. Whether that is condecension, as another poster in this thread suggested, is entirely up to the recipient of the message. I come from a Unix background, where RTFM has always been considered a perfectly acceptable response to a stupid question. And yes, I believe that any question that can be answered by google is inherently stupid, because it is a waste of resources (point in case: writing time available to SRP regulars).

Now then, where was I? Ah yes, the Wiki issue. The next logical step for SRP would be to turn that well of wisdom that the forum is into an easily accessible encyclopedia of straight razor shaving. The Wiki has been online for several months. Has anything happened? Not at all. If it were not for a few heroic characters like Bjørn or Lee, it would still be devoid of any meaningful content.

And that is exactly where the problem lies. You guys can spend months and years discussing the advantages of a Coticule with slurry over the other latest honing hype, but it will simply not make any difference whatsoever to the outside world. You are, in a manner of speaking, the earth lovers of shaving. Your problems are becoming as esoteric as your solutions. But you are losing contact with beginners in a way that will effectively cut you off from the personnel resources required to take this site beyond what it currently is. You will need more writers, and editors in particular, if you want to achieve that. And neither The Conversation, nor the umptienth gun thread, nor another discussion on whether barbers were better in the Middle Ages, the Wild West, or when Lynn Abrams was young (whichever happened first) will help attract that target group to this forum.

Did I mention that I totally love this place? If not, I do. Despite the above paragraphs.

I understand the argument that the professional earns a living with his skill.

But my motivation to be good at owning and using a straight razor is more basic. It's my face.

Well done, English - spot on.

Bert Little was a master barber i used to visit as a kid. I used to time him on my old 'Timex' watch - shave and a haircut (short back & sides of course!) just FIFTEEN minutes. This included a hot towel prior to lather then a REAL straight razor(no guard!!) for the shave & neck trim - the guy was like lightning! He'd been an Army barber where I guess speed was the key and, I am glad to say, he started my long interest in straight razors. Alas, I never had a shave from him (too young!) but I'll never forget that straight whispering across the back of my neck - dry BBS!!! - and behind my ears........


Bert's long gone now but if only a few can follow his lead then barbering will live on. Me? I haven't the skill - or nerve - to shave others but those who can - please do! rock on Bert!