Thread: Running into bloody problems with 3rd pass ATG

Originally Posted by mstecker

I've honed finely on a Norton wetstone. It's very sharp to the 'thumbnail' test.

Hi and welcome.

Which Norton wetstone(s) are you using? It's generally considered OK to do the thumbnail test after using a 4K hone, but after you've gone to 8K the TNT becomes more likely to reduce sharpness.

If you have steady hands you could learn to do the thumbpad test and use it after the 8K stage.

Do you have a strop? 60 laps or so can make the shave go a lot easier.

I also got tired of the nicks and cuts from going ATG, so I just stopped trying. I also watched Jockeys videos on youtube and decided to try copying his technique as much as possible WTG. My shaves have become enjoyable again. My results from one pass have improved alot. And...no cuts or irratation. It's not as close of a shave as ATG. And, I have to shave everyday now. But I totally look forward to it each morning. There's alot to learn about WTG before jumping into ATG.
Watch the Jockeys video. "short lite strokes" "sounds like buttering toast". Helped me alot.

Originally Posted by fccexpert

My advice: Don't do ATG, it is not necessary - see my comments under the 'stropping before atg thread'.

it might not be necessary for you, but it's a pretty simple way to get really good results.

Originally Posted by fccexpert

I never do ATG, and advise the same to others; 1) it is not necessary, you can get a good shave without it, in fact you can get a good shave once over if you know what you are doing 2) ATG is likely to cause major irritation and increases the risk of ingrown hairs substancially 3) most barbers manuals advise against ATG

Originally Posted by fccexpert

My advice: Don't do ATG, it is not necessary - see my comments under the 'stropping before atg thread'.

While you may have no need for an ATG-pass shaving your beard smooth, many of us have beards that cannot be shaved close without performing an ATG pass. Your statement about getting "a good shave once over if you know what you are doing" is something that I believe is only within range of gents with an extremely easy beard.
There are many gents on this forum performing ATG-passes without any irritation or ingrown hairs, who have no other chance of getting a smooth shave without it. I am in that case, and all other straight shaving fellows I've had the honor of meeting so far, were in that case also.

All barber manuals I know of teach ATG-strokes as well. They usually issue a warning against what they refer to as "giving a close shave", especially for gentlemen with tender skin.
Here's a quote from one of the barbering textbooks:
"The second time over serves to remove any rough or unshaven spots. Close shaving is the practice of shaving the beard against the grain of the hair during the second time over. This practice is undesirable because it irritates the skin and may lead to infection or ingrown hairs. For this reason, the barber-stylist should be cautious when givinga close shave.
However, should the client request it, first remove all traces of lather (...) [here follows a description how to perform the ATG-pass]

Once Over Shave
The once over shave takes less time for a complete and even shave. [note how the manual does not use the words "close shave".] For a once over shave, give a few more strokes across the grain when completing each shaving movement. This will assure a complete and even shave with a single lathering."

Bottom line: it seems to come down to the desire of having a close shave, or not. I personally desire a close shave.


Mstecker,

If your beard needs an ATG-pass for a smooth result, may I suggest that you try doing it immediately after the WTG-pass. There are only so many strokes you can do without irritation, and on my face, I rather trade the strokes of an XTG-pass for a bit of extra latitude on the ATG-pass.
I would also like to bring the following drawing under your attention, in case you hadn't seen it yet.


The full article is here:
Advanced shaving techniques for the straight razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Best regards,
Bart.

I agree ATG is needed to get a BBS shave. Keep in mind Mstecker only has 4 weeks of experience thus I'd expect his technique isn't quite mature nor his razor quite keen. That is why I suggested avoiding the pain of ATG and focus on the basics, WTG. He'll likely be better for it in the long run.

Originally Posted by Arg

I agree ATG is needed to get a BBS shave. Keep in mind Mstecker only has 4 weeks of experience thus I'd expect his technique isn't quite mature nor his razor quite keen. That is why I suggested avoiding the pain of ATG and focus on the basics, WTG. He'll likely be better for it in the long run.

Not true, I get BBS with a once over shave every day.

Originally Posted by fccexpert

My advice: Don't do ATG, it is not necessary - see my comments under the 'stropping before atg thread'.

I would have to disagree. You should be able to get a BBS using just a WTG and ATG. I think the XTG is the unnecessary stroke.

YMMV

Originally Posted by fccexpert

Not true, I get BBS with a once over shave every day.

Excellent, that doesn't, however, mean ATG is not necessary for the rest of us!

I don't use XTG.

I have been shaving since I was thirteen and there is no way I would ever be able to get a good shave without doing an ATG pass, period. I would still look like I have five o clock shadow no matter what I'd shave with. Even my 1926 Gillette NEW open comb with feathers wouldn't give me BBS with one pass especially without an ATG pass. I have never gotten an ingrown hair or razor burn from ATG passes.

Originally Posted by Disburden

I have been shaving since I was thirteen and there is no way I would ever be able to get a good shave without doing an ATG pass, period. I would still look like I have five o clock shadow no matter what I'd shave with. Even my 1926 Gillette NEW open comb with feathers wouldn't give me BBS with one pass especially without an ATG pass. I have never gotten an ingrown hair or razor burn from ATG passes.

Having the same beard creates a bond I would guess. You have an incoming friend request.
Luckily most of us who require ATG passes, usually also manage to get away with one.

Bart.