Thread: Is my razor sharp enough? HHT says NO! Your thoughts?

My razors will pass the HHT test very nicely up until the final hone I use.

After the final polishing on my last stone the HHT no longger will work with any of the blades I have honed on it.

BUT, the resulting shaves are by far better than anything I have had, and are much more comfortable than were I to leave out the last stone.

Trust the shave test.

Hmmm...

I suppose the ultimate way to tell if a steak is done is to eat it.

Or you could use a thermometer for the temperature test.

A skilled chef can tell the differences from rare to well done just by poking the steak with a finger. Would you be happy if your steak came to table with a bite out of it instead?

Anyway, the point is that razor sharpness tests are very much the same. If done correctly and after acquiring the needed skill, you can accurately judge the condition of your razor prior to lathering up and shaving.

Or you can just skip to the shaving. The problem there is that you may find yourself repeating the lathering/ shave test cycle many times before you get what you're after. Just like the above chef might find himself having steaks returned time and time again to re-cook if he never learns a few good "doneness" tests.

Depends on how adept you want to become at this art.

Originally Posted by honedright

Hmmm...

I suppose the ultimate way to tell if a steak is done is to eat it.

Or you could use a thermometer for the temperature test.

A skilled chef can tell the differences from rare to well done just by poking the steak with a finger. Would you be happy if your steak came to table with a bite out of it instead?

Anyway, the point is that razor sharpness tests are very much the same. If done correctly and after acquiring the needed skill, you can accurately judge the condition of your razor prior to lathering up and shaving.

Or you can just skip to the shaving. The problem there is that you may find yourself repeating the lathering/ shave test cycle many times before you get what you're after. Just like the above chef might find himself having steaks returned time and time again to re-cook if he never learns a few good "doneness" tests.

Depends on how adept you want to become at this art.

I like the analogy and I agree with it to a point. Where I differ is that steak is steak and hair is not all the same. In my recent experiment with my hair I found that even a new SE and DE blade had trouble passing HHT with my fine hair. This is no big thing for me.

I can tell by a TPT and by popping hair on my arm or leg, without touching the skin, where my keenness level is. For so many new guys if a razor doesn't pass HHT they are convinced that it isn't shave ready and that ain't , as George Gershwin said, necessarily so.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I like the analogy and I agree with it to a point. Where I differ is that steak is steak and hair is not all the same. In my recent experiment with my hair I found that even a new SE and DE blade had trouble passing HHT with my fine hair. This is no big thing for me.

I can tell by a TPT and by popping hair on my arm or leg, without touching the skin, where my keenness level is. For so many new guys if a razor doesn't pass HHT they are convinced that it isn't shave ready and that ain't , as George Gershwin said, necessarily so.

Risking belaboring the point, if I may, a barber who daily shaves many different beard types, and maybe having only a few razors at his disposal, comes to mind.

While it's certainly possible that this barber's razors might at times painfully pull on the beards of some of his customers, requiring him to stop to re-hone and strop his razor, or worse, continuing to shave and torture his victim, I'm guessing that the successful barber of days-gone-by very likely learned methods to judge the keenness of his blades that was appropriate for most beards.

The alternative seems too time consuming, and/ or barbarous .

Of course I may be wrong.

Originally Posted by honedright

Risking belaboring the point, if I may, a barber who daily shaves many different beard types, and maybe having only a few razors at his disposal, comes to mind.

While it's certainly possible that this barber's razors might at times painfully pull on the beards of some of his customers, requiring him to stop to re-hone and strop his razor, or worse, continuing to shave and torture his victim, I'm guessing that the successful barber of days-gone-by very likely learned methods to judge the keenness of his blades that was appropriate for most beards.

The alternative seems too time consuming, and/ or barbarous .

Of course I may be wrong.

You're probably right. Funny thing, I was talking to a barber I sometimes go to. He is 88 years old and still cutting hair. I asked him about honing and razors and he showed me a couple. What do you think he did to demonstrate their keenness ? A thumbnail test.

Another old time barber I met up with locally has one heck of a collection and won't turn loose of any of it. I told him that I love to hone straight razors and he immediately replied that it was a PITA and he was glad that they didn't do shaves anymore.

Anyhow.... I was talking to Lynn on the phone and lamenting the fact that I could only get razors to pass HHT sometimes. Lynn asked where I was getting my test hair from. Well I am pulling them out of a hair brush that is rarely cleaned and I wash my hair once a week whether it needs it or not.

Lynn pointed out that oil on the blade or on the hair may have a deleterious effect on the test. A freshly washed hair is a whole lot more likely to yield a satisfactory,i.e. ,successful result. OTOH, if I wasn't getting good shaves I would be concerned about it but I am so if they don't cut hanging hair .... well let them eat cake.

I'm so relieved I can read these threads, realize that despite the gently argumentative tone still understand what everyone is thinking, agree with everyone, see why beginners are so confused, and still get a decent nights sleep.

Like everyone has been saying, don't worry about the HHT. If it won't shave without you applying pressure, then it's dull. You may have rolled the edge stropping or something else.

Send it out, and DON'T strop it when you first get it back. If, when you do end up stropping it, it shaves poorly, then it's your technique and you can work on fixing that.

Good luck!

I think the HHT is valuable for me. However, I have calibrated the test to such a degree that it yields meaningful results for me. HHT3-5 has shaved well for me (usually a HHT-4 guy). That's not to say that razors that won't pass the test won't shave well. I just use that as an indicator that I'm ready for a shave test.

I think it can be something that you work back to as well. Develop a procedure with a great shaving razor that yields positive HHT results and then you might have a meaningful test for you.

Obviously, it's not the be all end all, but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it either.

EDIT: I calibrated it based on a little help from my friends

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

...I can tell by a TPT and by popping hair on my arm or leg, without touching the skin, where my keenness level is. For so many new guys if a razor doesn't pass HHT they are convinced that it isn't shave ready and that ain't , as George Gershwin said, necessarily so.

I'm still trying to figure out if I have enough sensation in my thumb pads to determine anything beyond a binary "sticky or not", but that arm/leg hair test is definitely the method that was the easiest for me to calibrate. Does it seem like every hair is being grabbed and cut, or just some/most of them? How much resistance do I feel with the blade going through thicker areas of leg hair? How much resistance do the hair follicles register? -- these are the tests that most accurately reflect how my shave will go.

After doing it hundreds of times while fiddling around with different hones, I can get a pretty good idea about how I'm doing with one quick "tree top" swipe up the side of my leg.

* * *

Since we're talking about calibration and whatnot, there's something else I'd like to throw out there: cutting thread. If you have a spare spool lying around, this can make for a good test, too. The goal is to loop the thread around the razor and hold the two ends together between thumb and forefinger. The test is how easily the blade cuts this loop. With a sufficiently sharp edge, there is very little resistance, but it gets much more noticeable if the edge isn't quite there yet.

Of course, like any calibrated test, it means nothing the first several times you do it, but after a while it works pretty well - especially since the thread is always the same.

Two things I'd like to point out for anyone who might try this:

1. like hair, not all thread is alike. If you find that the thread cuts too easily, get slightly thicker thread.

2. when the edge of the blade makes contact with the inside of the loop you're holding, it's likely that it won't be at *exactly* the opposite point of the loop from your fingers. This can result in a slicing action and skew your results. The way around this is to let the blade make contact while you're holding the thread loosely in your fingers, and then to tighten your grip on the thread only once the blade has taken the slack out of the loop. In other words, let the blade's contact point determine where you end up gripping the thread. See here for a visual.

Originally Posted by northpaw

I'm still trying to figure out if I have enough sensation in my thumb pads to determine anything beyond a binary "sticky or not", but that arm/leg hair test is definitely the method that was the easiest for me to calibrate. Does it seem like every hair is being grabbed and cut, or just some/most of them? How much resistance do I feel with the blade going through thicker areas of leg hair? How much resistance do the hair follicles register? -- these are the tests that most accurately reflect how my shave will go.

After doing it hundreds of times while fiddling around with different hones, I can get a pretty good idea about how I'm doing with one quick "tree top" swipe up the side of my leg.

* * *

Since we're talking about calibration and whatnot, there's something else I'd like to throw out there: cutting thread. If you have a spare spool lying around, this can make for a good test, too. The goal is to loop the thread around the razor and hold the two ends together between thumb and forefinger. The test is how easily the blade cuts this loop. With a sufficiently sharp edge, there is very little resistance, but it gets much more noticeable if the edge isn't quite there yet.

Of course, like any calibrated test, it means nothing the first several times you do it, but after a while it works pretty well - especially since the thread is always the same.

Two things I'd like to point out for anyone who might try this:

1. like hair, not all thread is alike. If you find that the thread cuts too easily, get slightly thicker thread.

2. when the edge of the blade makes contact with the inside of the loop you're holding, it's likely that it won't be at *exactly* the opposite point of the loop from your fingers. This can result in a slicing action and skew your results. The way around this is to let the blade make contact while you're holding the thread loosely in your fingers, and then to tighten your grip on the thread only once the blade has taken the slack out of the loop. In other words, let the blade's contact point determine where you end up gripping the thread. See here for a visual.

I like the idea... I'm thinking more heading toward a standard type monofilament of yet to be identified gauge or spec to replace each of our individual arm/head/leg/pubic hairs being used in each of our own hard-worn processes. This would effectively kill all argument surely.
Not sure if I want that really