Thread: Grind vs Beard observations

Today I was in a honeing rut and went threw about 25 razors, ok all my razors... honing and touching up edges. As was going along, say about blade #5 I found myself thinking of the last shave or any shaves from that blade. Remembering the different shaves started me down path that lead me to believe I pick a blade style based on the amount of growth I have. I never noticed I was doing that till today.

Here are my finding, that work on me...

Daily shaves tend to go to the 4/8 to 5/8 full hollows. There is little resistance and I can feel the stubble better with the flimsy blades.

With a few days growth I find I like a stiffer blade, the 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 hollow 6/8's. To me these blades really wack the heavier bristles with little resistance, but i can still feel whats going on.

Now and than I get lazy and end up with a weeks growth and I always seem to reach for the 8/8 heavy wedges. Nothing wackes the weeds quite as well. Once I tried a light blade after a week off and it was a hard shave.

Just to test this I went ahead and prepped up for a daily shave but used my heavist 8/8 wedge just to see what would happen. Wow what a difference, I never had so many sticking issues before (blade flats suctioning to my cheek) I really had to watch the angles. I also had a hard time feeling the wiskers to see if i got it all. I had to feel my face to see where I missed as I could tell by how it was cutting.

I'm sure this has been brought up before but it was interesting to try it and see what the results where for myself. Now I have to post the pic in SotD

There are probably many variables that can account for the different results with the different razors with everything ranging from using different techniques and strokes and angles to comparing the sharpness of the edges and of course your own personal preference for the different grinds.

All other things being equal the end results should always be the same no matter the beard or the grind.

Hi,
I agree- i find that i pick the razor most suitable for the amount of beard growth.(I only realised I was doing this in the past 3/4 weeks).
I have only 5 razors but there is a nice spread of sizes to choose from.
Kind regards
Noggs

Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

Today I was in a honeing rut and went threw about 25 razors, ok all my razors... honing and touching up edges. As was going along, say about blade #5 I found myself thinking of the last shave or any shaves from that blade. Remembering the different shaves started me down path that lead me to believe I pick a blade style based on the amount of growth I have. I never noticed I was doing that till today.

Here are my finding, that work on me...

Daily shaves tend to go to the 4/8 to 5/8 full hollows. There is little resistance and I can feel the stubble better with the flimsy blades.

With a few days growth I find I like a stiffer blade, the 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 hollow 6/8's. To me these blades really wack the heavier bristles with little resistance, but i can still feel whats going on.

Now and than I get lazy and end up with a weeks growth and I always seem to reach for the 8/8 heavy wedges. Nothing wackes the weeds quite as well. Once I tried a light blade after a week off and it was a hard shave.

Just to test this I went ahead and prepped up for a daily shave but used my heavist 8/8 wedge just to see what would happen. Wow what a difference, I never had so many sticking issues before (blade flats suctioning to my cheek) I really had to watch the angles. I also had a hard time feeling the wiskers to see if i got it all. I had to feel my face to see where I missed as I could tell by how it was cutting.

I'm sure this has been brought up before but it was interesting to try it and see what the results where for myself. Now I have to post the pic in SotD

Thanks for the post Maestro. That is very interesting. I am newbie to str8 shaving and I don't even have 2 weeks under my belt to probably speak intelligently about this topic. So, please forgive my naive point of view here...

However, I do have a stiff/thick beard (especially around chin...it's like a wire). I bought several blades (Wedge, 1/2, full hollow, etc...) for this purpose exactly; To see if heavier grinds tend to hack the bread more effectively that full hollows. I have only tried my wedge on 2nd shave (and 1/2 hollow on 3rd shave)...The wedge was tried after 2 days growth and it was more effective at removing the 2-day old growth. I have since stuck to my 5/8 (I think full hollow) to build on monitor my technique without too many variables. I plan on going back sometime to test this theory after improvements in technique.

Cheerios,
-Robert

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

All other things being equal the end results should always be the same no matter the beard or the grind.

I have read this bit of accepted wisdom many times here. It is with great trepidation that I dare question it. All I know is my admittedly limited experience, which has been as follows: I have shaved with around 20 hollow ground razors (henckels, ddbl ducks, faour, engels, etc.) which were shave ready to the standards of senior members here as well as folks like Bob Keyes, the point is the razors can safely be assumed to be shave ready. I have also shaved with 6 or so stiffer grinds ranging from 1/2 hollows to 1/4 hollows, to near wedges. I have found that for me the stiffer grinds simply provide a cleaner, smoother, more comfortable shave with fewer passes than a full hollow. This is mostly noticeable in the areas where whiskers are tougher and more wiry, which for me is the chin area. With the same prep, same technique, etc., the only variable being the grind of the razor, I observe a clear difference in the results. Sure I can get the same result with a full hollow but it takes another pass or two.

My usual argument I've stated many times and I think puts the issue to rest is this; when barbers did shaves as a daily part of their duties say back in the 1950s and before the usual razor they used was either a 5/8s or 6/8s hollowgrind. You might find an old timer whio learned with a part hollow and preferred it however by and large that is what they used. Now if a barber was able to give a customer a great close comfortable shave no matter the growth or beard type and did it again and again ever day how was this possible if you need to suit the blade to the beard? Yes barbers were highly trained then and knew how to read someones beard so as to use the correct technique but also remember in those days if you went to a barber for a shave it wasn't because you wanted a handyman special. A barber's shaves were expected to be perfect and if a barber cut a customer or he left the shop with razor burn the barber would have probably been laid out on the floor by the customer.

Its all a matter of having the correct technique and being able to read your own beard and of course having a kean razor. The bigger razor with the added heft is helping you to compensate. Of course preferring one type over another is a totally different thing as opposed to thinking you must use this or that.

Now I'll get off my soapbox.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

There are probably many variables that can account for the different results with the different razors with everything ranging from using different techniques and strokes and angles to comparing the sharpness of the edges and of course your own personal preference for the different grinds.

All other things being equal the end results should always be the same no matter the beard or the grind.

You are correct in that there are huge amounts of variables in every aspect of the shave, thanks for bringing that up as it's important.

My observations are just that, my shaves on my razors that I honed, yet more variables. Add to it each persons style of hold, shave, growth, prep, oh the list grows like a tribble...

I guess what I'm encouraging people to do is try different grinds at different times to find a system you like. For me it allows me to look at all kinds of grinds and shapes and have an idea of how I'm going to try that razor next. Now that I see a pattern in my own use I can start looking at razors I really want to try and why I want them.

Looks alone on razor buys only get you so far, I'm looking to fill out my rotation with blades I like the looks of as well as how they shave. I have a few I love the looks of but they just don't work for me in the shave. Others are just Bleh but shave so very well that I can't give them up. Now I have an idea of what that blade style does for me and I can look for one I like the looks of AND shaves like a bandit

All and All I would like others to take out of this post is to experiment with different razors and see what they can do for you. Enjoy all the aspects of the shave, Have fun

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

My usual argument I've stated many times and I think puts the issue to rest is this; when barbers did shaves as a daily part of their duties say back in the 1950s and before the usual razor they used was either a 5/8s or 6/8s hollowgrind. You might find an old timer whio learned with a part hollow and preferred it however by and large that is what they used. Now if a barber was able to give a customer a great close comfortable shave no matter the growth or beard type and did it again and again ever day how was this possible if you need to suit the blade to the beard? Yes barbers were highly trained then and knew how to read someones beard so as to use the correct technique but also remember in those days if you went to a barber for a shave it wasn't because you wanted a handyman special. A barber's shaves were expected to be perfect and if a barber cut a customer or he left the shop with razor burn the barber would have probably been laid out on the floor by the customer.

Its all a matter of having the correct technique and being able to read your own beard and of course having a kean razor. The bigger razor with the added heft is helping you to compensate. Of course preferring one type over another is a totally different thing as opposed to thinking you must use this or that.

Now I'll get off my soapbox.

Hmmmmm. Is there a citation for the comprehensive survey of old time barbers and the razors they all used? But lets go ahead and for the sake of argument assume that every barber in the entire history of mankind's existence used a full hollow ground razor. That has absolutely no bearing on the question of whether somebody can get different results with different grinds and have it be due to the grind. I didn't say that one can't get a close, clean comfortable shave with a full hollow, I specifically said I can get the same results with a full hollow it just takes another pass or two. I figured I would get a "technique" response. I have no reason to believe that is the case. If indeed it is due to lack of technique I am at a loss. I can go over a tiny spot on my chin repeatedly with a perfectly "keen" full hollow with everything stretched just perfect and at any angle you might try and multiple passes won't get the results that a stiffer grind does in one pass. It seems reasonable to me to consider the possibility that perhaps the full hollows with their greater susceptibility to torsional bending have something to do with that. So we could frame the issue as "a bigger razor with added heft helps you compensate" or we could frame it up as the inherent torsional bending that a thinner razor is subject to will require more work on the part of the user. Respectfully you have offered nothing that puts this to rest. What will put it to rest for me is if and when I get the same results in the same passes with a full hollow as I do with a stiffer grind. I'm not saying you might not be right, I'm just saying that for that for me at least you haven't made your case in quite the compelling, conclusive, putting the issue to rest manner you think you have. I sincerely hope this will be taken in the spirit of friendly, honest inquiry I intend.

A very timely post for me. I'm in the process of test driving a newly acquired Wade and Butcher 5/8" wedge. Strange razor this one. At long last, I have it at least as sharp, if not a bit sharper than my hollow grounds but for some reason it just doesn't feel as crisp as my hollow grounds. Very comfortable, very nice shaves but the hollow ground shaves just seem to be crisper. The best analogy I can use is with safety razors, if you take a 1912 Gem Jr, put a new blade in it and shave, then the next day put a fresh blade in a 3 piece Gillette Tech, you're likely to get really nice shaves on both days but the hollow grounds, like the 1912 (for me at least) just seem to deliver much crisper much more aggressive shaves. This post has me thinking though. I seldom miss a day of shaving so I'm wondering if I let my beard grow for a couple days if the wedge would be better in the rough than it is on the fairway.

Originally Posted by Lazarus

What will put it to rest for me is if and when I get the same results in the same passes with a full hollow as I do with a stiffer grind.

Practice Daniel san

Seriously tho, grind preferences are a pretty subjective topic. Your experience sounds different to mine however I may have agreed some years ago.