Thread: Maybe a Good Use for Gold Dollars?

I agree with the OP's premise.

Things like handling the scales when you try to shave XTG in the neck area, and shaving with your off-hand, would be easier to learn when you have no edge on the blade. At that time, you know that focusing on those aspects of your technique, for example, will not result in a cut.

I'd go further and say that, as a next step, the person trying this out should lather up and use the blunt razor to remove the lather from the whole face. This would simulate all the moves required in the shave.

I practiced with a butter knife. A blunt straight would have given me more information and made the first sharp straight shave easier.

I can remember standing the bathroom trying to figure out how to do a certain stroke without hitting my ear with the scales and causing the blade to slice.

Great idea!

An interesting question and one posed before. I don't think using a razor is really so difficult that we need a practice blade. After all, most of us had been shaving with some kind of edged razor prior to the straight, and so understand the basic principles. Further, the thrill of potential danger surely only eggs us on. Why are you looking for such a safe 'cotton wool' experience?

Originally Posted by yohannrjm

At that time, you know that focusing on those aspects of your technique, for example, will not result in a cut.

But the argument is - a bread knife is not a razor, it will forgive your bad technique which is really only giving you a false sense of security.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

But the argument is - a bread knife is not a razor, it will forgive your bad technique which is really only giving you a false sense of security.

We may be confusing different aspects of the shave here.

I was advocating using a breadknifed straight to get used to the types of strokes required for a typical shave (not for learning all aspects of the straight razor shave).

There's a lot of information that needs to be processed during the first straight shave, and trying to hold onto all that information mentally while holding a very sharp instrument in your hands is not ideal.

Let's look at an analogy:

Does anyone remember learning how to drive in a big city? I do, as I learned late in life.

Even if you're going at 20-25 mph, there's a lot of information being thrown at you while you're traveling pretty quickly down a busy suburban street in a large, potentially deadly, vehicle. You need to pay attention to your speed, to the brake pedal, to the turn indicators, to the lady walking on the sidewalk, to other cars, to driveways that could spurt a kid out, the guy trying to merge without looking in your direction, the lady in the pickup who zooms around you just so she can get to the next red light a few seconds in advance.

Initially, it is overwhelming trying to process all this while trying to hold a line and not do anything really dumb.

After a while all this slows down and you're happily pootling down 25 mph zone at 45 mph (people around here certainly do......different rant ).

That's why people start driving in parking lots and other lonely places. You learn to move the car without having to deal with driving in the real world. You get used to the instrument without having to worry about the kid charging out of the driveway. You learn how hard you need to step on the brake pedal, you know how to indicate turns, etc. Then, when you head out on the road, there's one less thing that is unfamiliar, so you have the time to concentrate on other parts of the driving experience.

Similarly, playing with a blunt razor could be likened to driving in a parking lot. You get to learn a few (not all) aspects of the straight razor shave without the chance that you'll cut yourself because you're not paying adequate attention to the business end of the razor while trying to keep those scales from hitting your chest.

It's one less thing to have to concentrate on while doing the shave. It does not mean you know how to shave 'in the real world', but it may make it easier to master that.

I appreciate your post. You make your point clear and I'm sure many would benefit from such an approach.
Personally, I learned all by myself. Long before joining here. And I cut myself and I got razor burn, and there were a million problems with my technique, and sometimes I got upset, and other times I blamed my razor, or my stropping, or my strop - but the worst thing that happened was a few small cuts, razor burn, a little discomfort and occasionally some missed patches of hair.

I think your analogy would be more sound by comparing driving in a carpark to starting to use the razor on just a small patch of face. A bread knife is more like a simulation machine.

I remember mentors used to tell newbies to start with just the cheeks, then try a little more each day until you could do your whole face. I think that's the best advice. Bread knives are for bread, or undoing flathead screws in an emergency.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

I kinda' agree with both sides of this argument. For someone learning to shave, there is no better way to do it than by actually shaving. With an 8 year old wanting to hang out with dad, a blunted razor is ideal. Part of learning to shave is watching and immitating dad. And for an adult thinking about taking the plunge, I can imagine it might be reassuring to use a blunted razor just to see how it feels in their hand.

Originally Posted by yohannrjm

I can remember standing the bathroom trying to figure out how to do a certain stroke without hitting my ear with the scales and causing the blade to slice.

I agree that there are pro's and con's on this issue.

I agree whole-heartedly with Joe's comments above about an 8 yr old. Call me over-protective, but despite the fact that my son is mature beyond his years and is a scout with his whittling chip, handing him a real blade and saying "go at it son" is well outside my comfort zone.

When I said that I would have liked to had the muted edge when I started str8 shaving, I should have qualified my statement. I didn't mean that I'd practice with a muted razor for a month or so until I built up enough courage to use the real thing. I'd have used the muted razor ONE or TWO times, just as yohannrjm said just to figure out how to do a certain stroke.

Here was one of my dilemmas when I started str8 shaving:

I'm as blind as a bat w/o my glasses. If I had my glasses on, they got in the way of the blade on the higher parts of my face. Trying to figure out how to get the spine of the blade "under" my glasses with a real razor was admittedly intimidating to me.

If I had my glasses off, I had to stand so close to the mirror that I would accidentally knock the scales into the mirror, causing the blade to jolt - not a good thing.

It just would have been nice to figure out how to approach certain areas of my face without fear of cutting myself. I agree that a muted edge is not going to give you the "feedback" of the real thing. That is why you'd need to move to the real thing ASAP. As several have said it would be easy to develop bad habits due to lack of razor feedback.

I guess it all depends on personal comfort levels. Despite the fact that as a veterinarian I've wielded a scalpel blade for years, it's another thing to put a sharp blade to your own face. No, I've never maimed an animal, and no I've never cut myself any worse with a str8 than I have with a safety. But that doesn't mean I wasn't cautious and calculated in both situations. Maybe I'm just more coordinated than some - after all, I am a brain surgeon (see http://straightrazorpalace.com/shavi...cutting-3.html)

Happy shaving,
Greg

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

An interesting question and one posed before. I don't think using a razor is really so difficult that we need a practice blade. After all, most of us had been shaving with some kind of edged razor prior to the straight, and so understand the basic principles. Further, the thrill of potential danger surely only eggs us on. Why are you looking for such a safe 'cotton wool' experience?

Because I see no down-side to "safe." I see no virtue in unnecessary discomfort or injury, even minor. Life gives us enough real pain and injury, why add to it? I'm glad you taught yourself. I'm glad I didn't have to teach myself.

How did you teach your son to shave? Give him a honed Dubl Duck, brush and soap and say "See you at breakfast?"

Nothing in shaving prepares one for a straight razor. I found absolutely nothing in the disposable multi-blade cream-from-a-can that I could transfer to the straight, so this is new for most. A small, easy step of a non-lethal but authentic handling practice razor can eliminate a good bit of initial awkwardness.

This is just shaving, it's not profound moral development.

Hang on, are we talking about adults or boys learning to shave? If the latter I'd go the DE route first, and then in time, if the boy were showing interest, I'd introduce a sharp razor and help him do small sections of his face until we'd learned the whole face.

If the boy were to teach himself with only the internet as a reference your breadknife suggestion would definitely be safer.

This kid seems to be doing fine.

I'm talking about adult men, and good men, whom I know well, whose manhood and maturity are not in question.

What's the problem with having a few dry-runs before going to the sharpened edge?

I really see no connection between DE skills and straight skills. Totally different tools and techniques involved.

I'm still puzzled over your objection to taking a discarded, virtually worthless razor and spending a few minutes creating something that lets someone take a few minutes to practise.

When I teach shooting, we begin with "dry fire" practice and then "snap cap" practice so they learn physically the feel of the hammer, the trigger, the loading and unloading routine. Then when we go to live ammunition, they have the basic hand-eye stuff together and can concentrate on putting that 250 grain .45 Long Colt bullet right on the target.

What precisely do you find wrong with that? Why do you disapprove? Give me one logical, empirical reason why that would hinder a person from getting a good start in straight-shaving, at any age?

And don't hit me with the bogus "real man" type arguments.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Hang on, are we talking about adults or boys learning to shave? If the latter I'd go the DE route first, and then in time, if the boy were showing interest, I'd introduce a sharp razor and help him do small sections of his face until we'd learned the whole face.

If the boy were to teach himself with only the internet as a reference your breadknife suggestion would definitely be safer.