Thread: Advice on Possibly Upgrading My Razor and Strop or Learning to Hone

Everyone's going to have different opinions, and no-one knows what your beard's like in comparison to theirs, so it's all subjective, but...

I'd get a Norton 4/8. I actually think one can learn to hone without TOO many problems if you take it easy. Seriously, I am a really inept user of tools and I didn't find it too hard; though I had two razors...

Actually, you need everything you've spoken of, really. You need another razor, a hone and possibly another strop. You say you've wrapped the strop around a door knob. Is it even when honing? Check that it's not buckling, as if it is the razor's edge won't touch it completely all the way along.

I don't think you can really tell how good an edge is from a photo, though it might help to show damage or a warp, etc. I don't know enough about honing to judge that edge, but it does look to me that your razor has some hone wear.

The good thing about a Norton 4/8 and such is that you can use almost a formula to start off with the honing.

It could be you have a really tough beard. But other than the easy to see difference in one another's closeness of hairs, I don't think we really know a lot about COARSENESS or hardness of hair; unless we go around feeling each other's faces, which I don't...

All you really know is what works for you and what you like. So get a hone, get a good strop (IF your strop is curved or damaged only) and get a second razor (shave ready) if you can. Then experiment on your face!

If the razor left stubblefrom day one, I would hesitantly say that it wasn't sharp enough.

If you decided to stick with it, I'd suggest getting a second razor. I'd also suggest to upgrade your strop to a quality one, as a good strop is necessary to get a good edge. A good vintage strop is nice, but most require fixing up, so I'd suggest getting a high quality new one (from a reputable vendor and manufacturer) to actually use (carefully) before shaving next to perhaps some practice stropping on the one you have.

About the razor: besides it not being a beauty queen, there doesn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with it (as far as I can tell from the pictures). Wostenholm made razors until into the 20th century, so I would frankly be astounded if they HADN'T made any 4/8 razors. Yours might as well have been one originally, but based on the etching on the blade face I'd estimate it at having been around a 5/8 or a 6/8. I've never heard anything bad about any Wostenholm from any period, so I don't doubt that your razor is of good quality. But getting a second one is always a good idea.

Until you get anything new, I'd suggest you follow DGilloon's advice to either use the pastes (I have never used any pastes, though, so I can't really give advice on how or what) or use your grandfather's barber's hone. What I have done in the past when I still had and used a barber's hone was spread a little lather on top and give it about ten to fifteen forward X-strokes, followed by a good stropping.

As for shaving, try telling yourself while shaving "Use less pressure". After about 1.5 years, I still find I sometimes need to tell myself.
Another tip I noticed that will greatly reduce irritation is to never stretch your skin in both directions. What I mean with this is that when shaving in your neck area, try not to stretch your skin by tilting your head too much, just get it taut. Try to stretch with your hands in the opposite direction your stubble grows (and also that not too tight). Low angle, low pressure and effective stretching of the skin are three key ingredients for a painless shave, and it will take time to get thoroughly acquainted with them.

Just start with getting another razor that is shave ready and then go from there.
It's all good advice above but the first step is another razor.

The pictures appear to show an uneven edge - if this is so, it will not be easy to hone the razor yourself. Your description of the effects of each shaving pass indicate that the razor is just not sharp enough so my advice would be to invest in a better razor that has been professionally honed so that you have a starting point of excellence to measure against. A close up of your strop will, I'm sure, generate more advice on whether it is up to the job.

Okay, sage advice all around and much appreciated. I've gone ahead and purchased a shave-ready vintage razor from stimpy52, and based off his reputation I trust it's a very nice razor like he says--that unused c.1900 German Montgomery Ward's 5/8 hollow in the classifieds.

As for the "poor man" strop, the way it hangs no matter where I hang it potentially causes distortion by design because it hangs from the center alone with no bar going through the entire width; the problem of which I've always been wary is that there's no handle of any sort on it, so I must wrap the end around my index finger, pinch with my thumb against the palm, and pull taut. This doesn't create a completely even pull like a metal bar for a D ring or leather handle would create, so added with the weight bearing on the center at the mounting point, there's some cupping that appears to flatten out as I strop. I knew the strop would be lacking in some ways because it was a $14 piece of leather, but I didn't want to jump into the deep end before I knew if I liked the water. I don't mean to judge Larry's design or anything of the sort, as others have had success with the poor man strop.

This all being said, I've made my nicking and technique mistakes on the strop and feel confident in my ability to not damage a good one. Since I just spent money on another, nicer razor, I went ahead and took advantage of a sale, purchasing an SRD 3" Premium I strop. Members here give it good reviews, so it's a starting point to hopefully keep the new razor well maintained.

As for honing, I'll keep my eye on Whipped Dog for a deal on a Norton setup, and I like the idea of eventually purchasing a 4K/8K Norton, a Norton prep stone, and a DMT 325. I think I might hold off on sending out my current razor for sharpening until I can purchase the honing setup. That way I have a razor on which to practice. Even if it will be a difficult task because of the uneven edge that UKRob warns about above, I feel more comfortable practicing on it than the new razor when its turn comes.

Thanks again for all the input, links, and references. The consensus is for me to get a better razor, which I've done, and I now have a nice strop to complete the setup in the event that the old strop is questionable. With these nice items, I'll at least be able to say it's not the equipment but the operator. I'll hold off on getting into honing for a couple months until I have the gear, and I'm sure I'll be asking questions in the honing section when that time comes.

Originally Posted by Annixter

I'll keep my eye on Whipped Dog for a deal on a Norton setup, and I like the idea of eventually purchasing a 4K/8K Norton, a Norton prep stone, and a DMT 325.

If you are at all interested in honing please do yourself a favour and save up and buy the real deal. There is very little point in buying chunks of formerly-larger hones only to buy the full size later. Your razors, wallet and hour glass will thank you for it later.

Just curious--have you been in touch with Larry about the razor you bought from him? He's a stand-up guy, and if there's a problem, he'd want to make it right. He's honed most of my razors, and I've been really happy with his work.

I think when you're first starting out, the best way to learn to strop without tearing your strop up is to lay it flat on a countertop and strop with it laid out like that. You'll learn what lightest contact of the edge on the leather really feels like, your chances of rolling the edge are greatly reduced, and you'll master the flip. You'll also have to go slow, which will greatly reduce your chances of nicking your strop.

Originally Posted by Durhampiper

Just curious--have you been in touch with Larry about the razor you bought from him? He's a stand-up guy, and if there's a problem, he'd want to make it right. He's honed most of my razors, and I've been really happy with his work.

No, I haven't contacted Larry mainly because I've waited so long to come to the conclusion that something isn't working for me. At first, I wasn't sure if my technique was poor, my beard hair very tough, my stropping technique lacking, the remaining stubble and tugging was normal, etc., so I didn't want to bother him early on. With his reputation, I assumed when he said shave-ready and tested meant just that--which it very well may have. There's a chance I destroyed the edge when I first stropped before my second shave, although I'm not sure if bungling a single strop would dull the edge to the results I've described from the start. Now 40 shaves in the only thing I would expect him to do is offer to hone the razor for his regular price, which would only be fair on his part. Now I have a dull razor worthy of practice on the hone once I get one, so things will work out.

As for your stropping advice, I wish I had read and followed it four months ago. I have the flip technique down well, and I can keep the blade nice and flat the entire stroke with no pressure applied. When learning the flip, on the draw back toward me I occasionally flipped the blade to push away and then kept it moving toward me edge-leading for the shortest moment. Five mistakes like this early on have left about one inch of the strop near the handle end nicked to where I had to move up the useable area. I now have resolved that particular mistake thanks to some SRP videos instructing to make sure the spine is moving in the leading direction before dropping the edge. I'm at no barber's speed, but I get a nice sound and feel from stopping and haven't nicked the leather in over three months (pounding on wood as I say this!).

I'm really looking forward to the new razor and strop. If I've been able to get a good three-stage shave with no nicks or cuts with my current razor, I hope transitioning to a sharp razor will be easy. I know I'll have to watch out for the spike point because I've had the pleasure of learning with a round point, and the couple nicks I've sustained occurred at the earlobes from overshooting my intended WTG side-burn pass when my hand obstructs the view.

Holy Moly! I received my gorgeous new razor, and that was the best shave I've ever had. I used the same prep and soap as always, and all it took was me allowing the weight of my hand to draw down the blade. In one WTG pass of my entire face I was left with a shave that I could only get after a WTG, XTG, and ATG shave with the old razor pictured above. No pulling anywhere, and my neck felt like slicing through butter. The sound this blade makes too is much more "tinging" and resonant than the old blade. My goodness the difference a sharp blade makes. And I really like the spike point too for trimming around my ears and van dyke.

For any novices out there who might stumble across this, take others' advice that there should be absolutely NO pulling or resistance as the ultimate truth. I just wish I had posted my concerns earlier, but I'm also glad I had to learn different angle and direction techniques to make the dull razor work for forty shaves because I now feel like I have much better control of the process.

I'm still waiting on the new strop from SRD, so here's to hoping can keep this puppy sharp.

That's excellent news! You're so right about the no pulling or resistance. BTW, I know you're getting another strop, but have you thought of modifying your other one? I wouldn't think it'd be too hard to get a couple of D rings and rivet (or get riveted by a bookmaker) each of the ends. Another idea might be to make a paddle strop. Based on what you say it might be best to use it with the leather laid flat on a table or bench top.

The razor sounds nice, I wouldn't mind seeing a photo :-)

Carl