Thread: Too Sharp

Dave, I think you are right. About 2 months ago, a friend of mine gave me an old shell strop, it is quite hard and slick. Puts a wicked edge on my razors and seems to have taken them to the next level.

Originally Posted by JoeSomebody

Dave, I think you are right. About 2 months ago, a friend of mine gave me an old shell strop, it is quite hard and slick. Puts a wicked edge on my razors and seems to have taken them to the next level.

If you find the same as I have, you'll find that it will maintain a razor by itself much longer, and if it's hard like horsebutt, it will utlimately be more forgiving to pressure. After a month or so of use on the same razor, I will have to increase pressure on the strop from time to time to make it feel like a fresh edge (despite the fact that it hasn't been hit with abrasives). I was worried at first that I would create a small convex edge, but even after two months of use, the edge is brought back fresh with 50 laps in my finest finishing stone.

Honestly any time somebody says "Wire Edge" and Straight Razor Strop in the same sentence you lose my attention..

I cannot even imagine a wire edge on a razor, besides maybe at the 1k or less level, on a SERIOUS restoration, let alone "Knocking one off" with a strop..

Originally Posted by gssixgun

When it comes to stropping the Verhoeven paper is all but useless.. great read for honing and edge dynamics.....

Agreed. My inference from his paper indicates stropping remained a mystery to him and his electron microscope.

Originally Posted by DaveW

..... You just need to accumulate the experience so that you know what works and what causes problems. Figuring out how to communicate what it is exactly you do (if anyone even wants to hear it) can come second or never.

Did you just say YMMV? I completely utterly concur with this statement.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Honestly any time somebody says "Wire Edge" and Straight Razor Strop in the same sentence you lose my attention..

I cannot even imagine a wire edge on a razor, besides maybe at the 1k or less level, on a SERIOUS restoration, let alone "Knocking one off" with a strop..

Please repeat this often Glen. Spot on.

Originally Posted by jaswarb

Agreed. My inference from his paper indicates stropping remained a mystery to him and his electron microscope.

Aye meeeee too,,,, and this is where the differences of opinion come into play, we all can pull up papers that defend any side of the argument, granted some are more geared to Tools and Knives which actually add to the confusion since much of those papers have little to do with straight razor edge dynamics but people quote them and link them regardless.. Actual straight razor info is very lacking, and much of it was written in Barber's training manuals which I honestly rate right up there with any Thread here on SRP infact I trust the threads here more, for the exact reason we are seeing in this one, as our threads allow for instantaneous responses, and opinions, where the old manuals only supplied one opinion, keep in mind the Barber around the corner might have been so busy, because he was so good, he didn't have time to pen a Manual

Originally Posted by jaswarb

Did you just say YMMV?

Sort of....your mileage may vary, but don't even worry about what your mileage is until you've burned a dozen fuel tanks worth. It'll likely be different and better on the 12th tank than it was on the 4th.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Honestly any time somebody says "Wire Edge" and Straight Razor Strop in the same sentence you lose my attention..

I cannot even imagine a wire edge on a razor, besides maybe at the 1k or less level, on a SERIOUS restoration, let alone "Knocking one off" with a strop..

I don't know if I did that but I agree that the only way to generate a really serious one is at lower grit and *pulling* the edge, like someone would do with a tool. A perceived one would instead be scratches left by coarse abrasive. Maybe there is some tiny disorganized semblance of one left before fine stones. After that, It's my guess that stropping wears just a tiny bit off the edge and removes the effect of the abrasive grooves that go to the edge. Maybe that's not right, or maybe it's common knowledge, I don't know, but experience tells me it improves the edge off of every single abrasive that I have (some more than others, and on some steels more than others, but always some improvement), so there's no reason to even define exactly what's going on. Worrying about it could get in the way of enjoying shaving.

I also think the term overhoning is something that should be split between stones that are coarse enough to actually do it, and stones and powders that are not. If a stone is capable of "overhoning" then for a practical daily use finisher, I don't want it.

There used to be talk of edges in woodworking being too fragile because they're too sharp. At least that much has been put to bed. I'm assuming that the discussion of the "utra fine" edges that are not durable has more to do with no edge at that level of sharpness being able to ignore abrasive skin and hairs, and that the same "weak" edge razor on every day of use is still sharper than one that started with an edge that was less sharp and perceived to be stronger.

Alex gilmore put an interesting video of a razor being palm stropped several hundred times. What it did to the edge was interesting, and not exactly what I expected to see. I don't see that up on youtube any longer, though.

Couple of things you brought up Dave

The Overhoned horn was sounded long and hard here on SRP and other forums it took years to knock it back down,, it is a term like you said that gets tossed out way to much.. The "Fragile" edge is something that is raising it's ugly head again though, with the advent of the Veho pics... Many are begining to polish the bevels for looks, rather than performance which I see as a bad thing myself.. The Proof of the Puddiing so to speak is in near every Natural edge being "Not" so pretty to the Veho yet awesome on way too many faces to discount it

The definition of "Overhoned" is so misleading that I try not to even use the term any longer, I think also like you stated, "that the term changes with where you are at on the honing ladder"... that makes sense to my brain also..

Originally Posted by DaveW

I also think the term overhoning is something that should be split between stones that are coarse enough to actually do it, and stones and powders that are not. If a stone is capable of "overhoning" then for a practical daily use finisher, I don't want it.

Great thread, guys.

I understand what you're saying, Dave, but I would suggest that any hone is capable of producing at least some small burs and a resultantly rough edge - "overhoned" if you will. Viz - the video of a lady in the Dovo factory honing rapidly on a coticle and stopping to drag the edge on what appears to be a piece of stiff leather to remove any burs before completing her task. I would further suggest that stropping would remove such burs through fatigue. Ever bend a paper clip back and forth until it breaks?

They use coticules at dovo? That's a waste considering the edge when it arrives. I shaved once with mine & sent it to Lynn.

Originally Posted by JeffR

Great thread, guys.

I understand what you're saying, Dave, but I would suggest that any hone is capable of producing at least some small burs and a resultantly rough edge - "overhoned" if you will. Viz - the video of a lady in the Dovo factory honing rapidly on a coticle and stopping to drag the edge on what appears to be a piece of stiff leather to remove any burs before completing her task. I would further suggest that stropping would remove such burs through fatigue. Ever bend a paper clip back and forth until it breaks?