Results 1 to 10 of 10
Like Tree18Likes
  • 6 Post By Oldnick
  • 1 Post By Iceni
  • 3 Post By Voidmonster
  • 1 Post By ScienceGuy
  • 1 Post By JimmyHAD
  • 6 Post By Oldnick

Thread: Newbie ID and age question about stubtail

  1. #1
    Senior Member Oldnick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    118
    Thanked: 112

    Default Newbie ID and age question about stubtail

    This just came in the post and I know nothing about why it went cheaply, so would someone fill me in please? The case is embossed with a DW in a few places, and appears quite old, so old I really can't be sure of the materials involved. The horn scales are in better shape than I had imagined and will be headed for neatsfoot shortly. An info will be appreciated.
    Name:  DSCN6126.jpg
Views: 178
Size:  61.7 KBName:  DSCN6125.jpg
Views: 175
Size:  66.8 KBName:  DSCN6124.jpg
Views: 172
Size:  49.9 KBName:  DSCN6123.jpg
Views: 164
Size:  63.7 KB
    rodb, Geezer, WW243 and 3 others like this.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Oldnick For This Useful Post:

    Iceni (03-12-2016)

  3. #2
    Senior Member Iceni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Coventry
    Posts
    710
    Thanked: 221

    Default

    http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...tml#post550136

    That should clear up the stamping. It's either I-SHAW or J-SHAW.

    No idea on the age, It's early. Older than 1810 at that is the regarded year for shoulders to appear like a modern razor has. It's probably cast steel rather than drop forged that'll explain the good general condition of the metal. Clean it up and get it honed!

    It could well be as old as the Declaration of Independence! July 4, 1776.


    Name:  200156d1430657169-dip-toe-stubtails-18th-century-classification-razor-tails.jpg
Views: 164
Size:  25.9 KB
    Last edited by Iceni; 03-12-2016 at 12:58 AM.
    Geezer likes this.
    Real name, Blake

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Iceni For This Useful Post:

    MW76 (03-12-2016), Oldnick (03-12-2016)

  5. #3
    Senior Member Oldnick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    118
    Thanked: 112

    Default

    I had studied those two links before, but couldn't understand why I got it for <$40 unless I was missing something. The strike on the stamping doesn't even hint at the J or I dash SHAW, and only the bottom line and a whisper of the right hand side of a box around is visible under considerable magnification.

  6. #4
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    32,564
    Thanked: 11042

    Default

    I've seen a lot of those old stubtails with very crude, and sometimes partial, stampings. Another thing about the 1700s and very early 1800s razors is straight scales with no curve at all. According to Robert A. Doyle the curve started developing in the scales around the time that distinct tangs came in.

    Nice example of a 1700s piece, especially if that chart is accurate. I would've thought that to be blade wear, but it may have been forged in that profile. BTW, I couldn't say where it is posted, but IIRC Neil Miller wrote about the material that those razor boxes were made out of and ......... IIRC ....... could be pressed paper, or maybe leather.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

  7. #5
    Senior Member Oldnick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    118
    Thanked: 112

    Default

    Appears to be laminated paper or extremely thin wrapped wood veneer body with a very thin embossed leather wrapped over all -- or not. A bit of microscope work could decide.

  8. #6
    Captain ARAD. Voidmonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pacifica, CA
    Posts
    2,474
    Thanked: 2226

    Default

    It's very late 1700's or early 1800's. Maybe 1795-1810. Most likely made by Thomas Shaw, who used the mark "SHAW" at the time.

    John Shaw was in business then, but his mark was "CLAYTON".

    The box is one of the very few old leather coffins I've seen. It was made by stretching thin leather over a form while wet, stamping the designs in and boiling it until it became rigid.
    JimmyHAD, Wullie and WW243 like this.
    -Zak Jarvis. Writer. Artist. Bon vivant.

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Voidmonster For This Useful Post:

    JimmyHAD (03-16-2016), Oldnick (03-16-2016), Wullie (03-19-2016)

  10. #7
    Senior Member ScienceGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,650
    Thanked: 1341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHAD View Post
    Another thing about the 1700s and very early 1800s razors is straight scales with no curve at all. According to Robert A. Doyle the curve started developing in the scales around the time that distinct tangs came in.
    I wish they had never written about this. Within the broader scope of razors from 1700s to mid 1800s it's not -quite- true, but is written firmly enough to have become near-fact now. It's actually a pretty bad way to date razors.
    Wullie likes this.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to ScienceGuy For This Useful Post:

    Oldnick (03-16-2016)

  12. #8
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    32,564
    Thanked: 11042

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmonster View Post
    The box is one of the very few old leather coffins I've seen. It was made by stretching thin leather over a form while wet, stamping the designs in and boiling it until it became rigid.
    Thanks for the info Zak, I thought I remembered Neil mentioning leather razor coffins, but I'd never be able to find the reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceGuy View Post
    I wish they had never written about this. Within the broader scope of razors from 1700s to mid 1800s it's not -quite- true, but is written firmly enough to have become near-fact now. It's actually a pretty bad way to date razors.
    I wondered about that. In 1980, when Robert Doyle wrote that, he was about the only resource in print AFAIK.
    Voidmonster likes this.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JimmyHAD For This Useful Post:

    Oldnick (03-16-2016), Voidmonster (03-17-2016)

  14. #9
    Senior Member ScienceGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,650
    Thanked: 1341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHAD View Post
    Thanks for the info Zak, I thought I remembered Neil mentioning leather razor coffins, but I'd never be able to find the reference.


    I wondered about that. In 1980, when Robert Doyle wrote that, he was about the only resource in print AFAIK.
    Lummus also, if I recall he was saying similar things.

  15. #10
    Senior Member Oldnick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    118
    Thanked: 112

    Default

    [QUOTE/]The box is one of the very few old leather coffins I've seen. It was made by stretching thin leather over a form while wet, stamping the designs in and boiling it until it became rigid.[/QUOTE]

    I didn't think that it had the same feel and look as the treated paper ones, and the way it is wrapped and the thickness also seem markedly diferent. Meanwhile, I'm bringing it back slowly by hand



    Name:  ELBOW.jpg
Views: 98
Size:  73.2 KB

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Oldnick For This Useful Post:

    Euclid440 (03-17-2016), Voidmonster (03-17-2016)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •