Thread: Douglas cutlery

A dulled razors edge on the right. chipped and broken

Much different from a dulled razor knifes edge. (Exacto) what most people think of as dulled.

That’s the difference between cutting laterally as a knife, and on a bias as a shear (razor). Carbon-Chromium resists this kind of damage. That's not to say vintage blades didn't do very well, good enough to last centuries in fact, it's only to say I went a different way. besides when did good enough become a reason to not do something else.

These pictures by themselves are completely meaningless. So, let's start to put some meaning to them.

First picture:
1) What is on the left side - razor? What kind of razor, grind, steel type, etc.?
2) What is on the right side - razor? What kind of razor, grind, steel type, etc.?
3) What happened to the right side since it was honed and stropped? Shaving? How many times, over what period, maintenance between shaves?
4) What is the scale on those pictures, say the distance along the edge on the left side?

Second picture:
1) What is on the picture - exacto knife blade?
2) How does the exact same blade look like when brand new?
3) What has happened between the blade being brand new and that picture, i.e. what was cut, over what period etc.?

Forget all of this techno-mumbo-jumbo. The bottom line to any razor is customer satisfaction. This gentleman makes a very unique product that seems to appeal to, and satisfy, his customer base. It seems that some folks are throwing his razors onto the Gold Dollar pile because his grind/bevel is unconventional. I wonder how those first hollow grinds were received in Sheffield back in the day. Those early makers didn't have electron microscopes or hardness indexes. They relied on trial and error, experience, feel, and common sense to arrive at a large variety of steels, grinds, shapes, tempers, etc., etc. Their razors either found their niche and then became successful or, like hundreds of examples, became extinct. Like any product this man's razors should be judged by results and not because they are outside the norm.

Regards - Walt

Disclaimer: Even though I live in close proximity to this gentleman I have never met or spoken with him and have never seen or owned any of his razors.

Originally Posted by Walt

Forget all of this techno-mumbo-jumbo. The bottom line to any razor is customer satisfaction.

Absolutely, that's one way to look at it. But all of us come here to talk about straight razors, and very large part of it is the 'techno-mumbo-jumbo'. If the only thing we'll be ever saying is "the market is the ultimate decider" then we may as well close the site an put one page "As long as you're satisfied with your razor everything is great, otherwise contact consumer protection!"

Let's see which are the most commercially successful "razors"? The razor shaped objects of the zee-pk type. They've been going on longer than just about any custom razor maker, sell in far larger quantities and there is no evidence that customer (dis)satisfaction with them is making any difference on that market.
I am certainly not lumping the razor in the OP with those razor shaped objects, just demonstrating the falsehood of the "let the market decide".

In any case, we talk forever about stuff like honing, and stropping, we talk over and over about the same hones, razors, brushes, soaps, etc.
Some people apparently took issue with unnecessarily wide bevels. I could see those as something positive from aesthetic point of view, but functionally they are the opposite of 'feature'. Just think for a second - wide bevel exponentially increases the maintenance of a razor. The slightest damage to the edge and you have to spend hours rehoning it.

I think one of the things that makes this site stand out among the rest is the far deeper level of expertise we have here. Which means that when there is false information it gets corrected. I've been around for about 6 years now and there is a huge difference with other shaving sites where the most important thing seems to be 'everybody's opinion is equally good'. Where I come from true is true and false is false, and lack of understanding is not a carte blanche to simply make stuff up.

And yes, those early makers didn't have electron microscopes, they didn't even have thermometers - hence most of their razors are junk as far as shaving goes. Insisting on doing everything by trial and error instead of learning from other people's experience or using the most rudimentary method for performing a job when there is far better stuff available, that in my view is a hallmark of stupidity.
Yes, it can be done, but why would somebody value their time so little or be so arrogant to keep reinventing the wheel.

Gugi - I didn't mean any offense. What I was trying to say, and not very clearly I'm afraid, is that the OP posted in the Show and Tell section of the forum where he was "displaying a recent acquisition" as stated in the subhead. He wasn't seeking technical advice, just doing a little bragging. And yes, "As long as you're satisfied with your razor everything is great" in the show and tell section. The OP wasn't complaining about his razor or asking for consumer protection. Maybe I was overreacting, but some comments seemed a little harsh.

As far as false information getting corrected . . . that sounds a little judgmental. Just because someone's ideas are different doesn't make them incorrect. Einstein's theory of relativity was initially deemed incorrect by most physicists of his time. I'm not putting this discussion on the same level as Einstein, but the analogy is apropos. I'm not sure where you come from but, "Where I come from true is true and false is false, and lack of understanding is not a carte blanche to simply make stuff up" sounds suspiciously like: What I believe is true and what I don't believe is false and any new idea is simply a lack of understanding.

And if you believe it is arrogant to "keep reinventing the wheel" I can only believe you must be driving around in an automobile similar to the one in the photo below.

I apologize for hijacking this thread.

Regards - Walt

Originally Posted by Walt

Gugi - I didn't mean any offense. What I was trying to say, and not very clearly I'm afraid, is that the OP posted in the Show and Tell section of the forum where he was "displaying a recent acquisition" as stated in the subhead. He wasn't seeking technical advice, just doing a little bragging. And yes, "As long as you're satisfied with your razor everything is great" in the show and tell section. The OP wasn't complaining about his razor or asking for consumer protection. Maybe I was overreacting, but some comments seemed a little harsh.

Hold one one second and take a look back at the thread. Yes, it was started 7 months ago as show&tell, and every customer was raving about the razors. However, when the wide (and terribly uneven) bevels were pointed out an explanation was offered involving some made up reasons about functionality.

Originally Posted by Walt

As far as false information getting corrected . . . that sounds a little judgmental. Just because someone's ideas are different doesn't make them incorrect.

Of course not, being incorrect is what makes them incorrect - and the science is out there, you can even find copies of important papers in the Library section.

Originally Posted by Walt

Einstein's theory of relativity was initially deemed incorrect by most physicists of his time. I'm not putting this discussion on the same level as Einstein, but the analogy is apropos.

Nope, the analogy is terrible - I would venture to speculate that it's because you do not know or understand that theory, how it came about, and how it was received. It was developed based on 'empirical evidence' which demonstrated that the existing theories were wrong. In Einstein's theory was consistent with the new evidence, but so were a number of competing theories. Which one survived - the one whose predictions of new phenomena were consistent with the observations of these phenomena when those observations were made later on.

Originally Posted by Walt

I'm not sure where you come from but, "Where I come from true is true and false is false, and lack of understanding is not a carte blanche to simply make stuff up" sounds suspiciously like: What I believe is true and what I don't believe is false and any new idea is simply a lack of understanding.

Yes, I come from the world of science and there is a small part about belief, but the enormity of it is about empirical evidence. Your description is the exact opposite of what science is about.
That's why I have a problem when people just throw out there some fake but technical sounding explanations, or when they present photographs supposedly showing something, but witholding all the important information which could show their story is junk. I have enough experience to reject this kind of manipulation.

There's something though... In the way you say it, that just tickles my say-the-contrary fancy...

And, by the way, is :

Take a look at the razors marketed 'For Tough Beards' when straight shaving was far more common and there was huge competition. A lot of them, including from the top manufacturers, are full hollow and extra full hollow ground.

a scientifical evidence ?

Originally Posted by dudness

Oh... There is substantiating evidence that all the truth in this world of men does not reside in science only.

Yet science is the only thing with predictive power.

Originally Posted by dudness

And, by the way, is :

a scientifical evidence ?

I didn't claim it is, what's your question?

Try again, but I am not interested in arguing over semantics - please address the 'techno-mumbo-jumbo'.