Thread: Nagamasa Kamisori

Originally Posted by jdto

I know what the kanji look like for Tamahagane and I have a few different drawings of them right here on my desk. Please tell me what your interpretation is for the kanji on my blade. They are not the most clear, I'll agree, but I don't see other shapes having anything to do with razors that are even remotely close.

From what I've been able to glean, they say tamahagane-uchi.

hopefully someone that knows Japanese will chime in and clear that up.

Originally Posted by mainaman

hopefully someone that knows Japanese will chime in and clear that up.

That would be ideal. It also doesn't help that they stamps aren't very clear.

Originally Posted by jdto

That would be ideal. It also doesn't help that they stamps aren't very clear.

here is one that looks like tamahagne but the first kanji is not quite the same so it is unclear to me if it the real deal or not:

I'll try to take a better photo of the kanji, as there are some details that don't show up. I have looked at a lot of photos and I've seen photos of razors from this same maker. Hopefully it's tamahagane, but if not, it's still a nice razor. Cheers!

Originally Posted by mainaman

here is one that looks like tamahagne but the first kanji is not quite the same so it is unclear to me if it the real deal or not:

It has been a while, but I will give it a try.



Going from left to right (not the usual way of writing), the first two kanji together means "special", "rare", "top quality"... etc. The 3rd kanji looks like "Gold" but is missing a couple of details. The use of precious metals/stones/jewels kanji is typical in Asia writting to indicate high quality... you should look at it as an adjective. The 4th kanji means "steel."

Together, it translate to "special precious steel." It is not the same as tamahagne for sure, which translates to "Jade Steel."



The 1st two kanji on the Kamisori in question, to my eyes, means tamahagne. BUT, here is the big issue... there is a 3rd kanji. it means "hammered." One does not say tamahagne "made"... it is either tamahagne or some other kind of metals. Maybe someone knows better as why?

Originally Posted by Hopper

It has been a while, but I will give it a try.

Going from left to right (not the usual way of writing), the first two kanji together means "special", "rare", "top quality"... etc. The 3rd kanji looks like "Gold" but is missing a couple of details. The use of precious metals/stones/jewels kanji is typical in Asia writting to indicate high quality... you should look at it as an adjective. The 4th kanji means "steel."

Together, it translate to "special precious steel." It is not the same as tamahagne for sure, which translates to "Jade Steel."

The 1st two kanji on the Kamisori in question, to my eyes, means tamahagne. BUT, here is the big issue... there is a 3rd kanji. it means "hammered." One does not say tamahagne "made"... it is either tamahagne or some other kind of metals????

Tamahagne is commonly referred to as jewel steel. At least when it comes to the slab coming out of the tatara, and sword making. I hope that helps clear things up some.

onimaru55:

yea that chisel comparison does clear thing up a lot. Specially when you consider the working face of the tool. On another note, i am pretty certain that even tachi were signed for omote/signature to be out when worn properly, edge down. I have seen some slick suriage's of tachi into katana. signatures cut off then re-mounted on the proper side for a katana, or cut around signature and make it thin. cut slot into katana omote, and bend signature over from tachi omote to katana omote. The norm is signature cut off, or a portion left on the katana ura. anyways back to the discussion. I am fairly certain they are pretty much bound to using differing grades of tamahange to produce a japanese sword. not that they cannot make a sword out of something else, but to be nihonto it needs to be tamahagne. i am of course unsure of the core metal, but fairly certain it is different grade of carbon steel (most likely also from tatara, but not the jewel steel), not iron. and this is from my humble limited knowledge.

Originally Posted by LameBMX

On another note, i am pretty certain that even tachi were signed for omote/signature to be out when worn properly, edge down.

Exactly. The omote on swords is determined by how it is worn. The edge can be facing up or down depending on the sword but on kataba tools the asymmetric shape determines front & back.

Originally Posted by Hopper

The 1st two kanji on the Kamisori in question, to my eyes, means tamahagne. BUT, here is the big issue... there is a 3rd kanji. it means "hammered." One does not say tamahagne "made"... it is either tamahagne or some other kind of metals. Maybe someone knows better as why?

Hammered as it pertains to forging?

Originally Posted by jdto

Hammered as it pertains to forging?

Right. Forged might have been a better translation.