Thread: The worlds largest collection of T. Ascher!

Originally Posted by Martin103

Very nice collection Zak, 3 razors from the same maker yet totally different blades, would be interesting to update your new finding on Mr Ascher!

Yeah, I've got a lot of stuff to add (though a great deal of it is inconclusive), but I'm having one of those days where I have to track down an intermittent computer problem, and it's wrecking my ability to do any one thing for very long.

T. Ascher update pls!

Okay, this is all incomplete and probably not accurate, but it's the best I can do.

I also need to mention that I had been barking up entirely the wrong tree on the name -- Specifically, Theo Ascher in Chicago -- and Neil Miller and Geoff Tweedale set me straight and gave me a great pile of documents to rely on.

That said, there's nothing that directly ties the razor-selling "T. Ascher" to the individual I can track, Isaac Gottschalk Ascher.

It all hinges on this:



Which makes it pretty clear that Isaac Ascher was doing business as T. Ascher in Manchester, circa 1825. Most likely, T. Ascher was his father, though I have never seen a record of this father.

Isaac Gottschalk Ascher was born in Naugard, Prussia in the year 1795. He and his family immigrated to England at some point, possibly by way of France, as there are some business records of the Aschers in Paris. At the moment I can't find them to place them in a timeline, however.

They lived in Scotland for a while as well, and by 1841 had moved to Canada where he may have helped found a local Synagog. His sons Isidore and Jacob became famous in their own rights, especially Isidore.

Isaac died in 1891.

That's about the end of the concrete information. I know at one point I'd found an advertisement from the Monreal store, roughly 1860's, stating that among his luxury goods he carried fine razors, but that's not very much.

Some complementary information.

All of the Ascher razors I've purchased have come from about a 200 mile radius of Montreal.

The probable dates of Ascher razors (1830's-1840's) correspond to a major schism in the German Masonic lodges over admission of Jews, and at least two Ascher razors were etched with Masonic designs, clearly for some Masonic temple or other.

These dates also correspond to a large(ish) number of Edward Leon & Co razors with Masonic imagery. Leon was another very prominent Jewish family selling Sheffield-made razors stamped 'Sheffield', but for the American market.



And that's what I've got. Better than nothing, but not hugely illuminating.

Was Isaac selling goods with T. Ascher because of his father? Maybe. Was T. Ascher someone else entirely? Completely possible, though it appears that Isaac had a somewhat fluid identity as he moved from place to place, and left a string of failed businesses in his wake. Maybe he was a bit flim-flam, but I hate leveling charges like that without any kind of concrete evidence, so I'll leave it as a mystery. A mystery that's produced some very interesting razors!

I would find this advertisement AFTER I made that post. Ah well.'

From a Montreal trade directory, circa 1870ish.

Hey Zak,
Do I read that correctly "Shaving Glasses"?

I think I need a pair.

Originally Posted by KindestCutOfAll

Hey Zak,
Do I read that correctly "Shaving Glasses"?

I think I need a pair.

It sure does!

I'd guess mugs, but who knows?

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

The most detailed etching I have ever seen on a razor, wow

Hey Zac,

Think you can get a big of that masonic without quite so much glare on it? I'd like ot compare the "working tools" with those my Greaves.


Some way cool old blades ya got there.

W

Originally Posted by Wullie

Hey Zac,

Think you can get a big of that masonic without quite so much glare on it? I'd like ot compare the "working tools" with those my Greaves.


Some way cool old blades ya got there.

W

No problem, amigo!



Interestingly, your Greaves Masonic is quite a bit different from mine.



The etch is really hard to make out because the seller had 'cleaned' it. I plan to re-etch it at some point, but that'll have to wait for a while. It really does look like the tools on my Greaves are very similar to the Edward Leon, and the ones on yours are very similar to the big T. Ascher. But then, the blade is more similar to the Ascher too.

And as an aside, my big Ascher is still unhoned because it has some kind of horrific razor scoliosis. There's lumps along the spine edge that prevents it from taking a full bevel. I'll need to make a brass-tube jig, I think.

The Greaves, on the other hand, took about 5 minutes to get a glorious edge. It shaves as well as my fancy Swedish razors, except it weighs about six pounds

Hi Zak,

I think there is a degree of confusion between Isaac Gottschalk Ascher and his father - also Isaac Gottschalk Ascher. The father was indeed born in Prussia in 1795, but his son was born in the UK, circa 1835 (I think). The father also lived in Montreal at one point - in fact he died there. The son had a variety of addresses in London, Forest Hill in Kent (at least two locations) and Montreal.

Interestingly, when the firm split Henry Mendelson stayed in Manchester (38 King Street) and carried on a jewellery and watchmakers business). He died in 1874, leaving money to the children of Moritz Frankel who pre-deceased him. Neither of his other two partners (Tutzer and Ascher) were left anything.

Mendelson's census record shows that he too was a Prussian, so presumably he, Ascher and perhaps the other two partners came from a very close-knit community in Prussia and stayed together after they arrived in the UK. Maybe the memory of T. Ascher remained locked away in Prussia.

BUT - the mention of 'T. Ascher, Mendelson & Co" might be another red-herring. This mention of T. Ascher comes from the dissolution of the partnership in 1824. It was common for the presiding court to make the matter public, so all other records are copies. One copy exists that makes no mention of a T. Ascher at all:



Maybe that is the correct one - all the others might be copies of an already typo'd copy?

From one of your clippings we find that Ascher & Co was established in 1844, at which time Isaac G Ascher the son would have been a mere 9 yrs old, so presumably this is the business of Isaac the father.

The sons businesses did seem to fail. Bankruptcy followed bankruptcy. Here is one from 1886:



In the Bank of Montreal's Report to its Creditors, dated 1880, the sons company (Ascher & Co) was listed as one of the "...11 most celebrated overdrawn accounts..."

When we look at Ascher & Co from the sons time, we find no mention of a T. Ascher. Plenty of other Aschers, but no T. Ascher:



The above is from the Montreal Directory dated 1871-2. although Isaac was there in 1869, records show that he was also living in Kent and trading in London at the time.

Move a generation back to his fathers time and the clipping you posted earlier about T. Ascher - it seems that this mysterious T. Ascher was a figure of the elder Isaacs time, probably older than him, as he does not actually figure in the list of assignees in said clipping, dated 1824 - before Isaac the son was even born.

Thats if T. Ascher had anything at all to do with the IGAs, which I am beginning to doubt, mostly because of the tang stamp of the Superior Silver Steel razors - Sheffield. We know that razors made in Sheffield were stamped-up for others, but it was usual to put the buyers address (eg Pall Mall, Piccadilly Circus, etc, etc) on the tang - not the place of manufacture - Sheffield. So it was stamped either for a non-manufacturing T. Ascher who had a premises in Sheffield, or made by a manufacturing T. Ascher in Sheffield.

I have found a record for a Thomas Ascher, born c. 1821 in Yorkshire in a census when he was 20 yrs old, but an abreviation has been used for his profession - "M.S." the 'S' does look a little like an 'L' used on the same page, in which case it could be Manual Labourer and thus a red-herring, but it is sufficiently different to the L to warrant closer inspection.

Whatever, the timeline is good for superior silver steel and a date c1840s for the razors.

I think there is a bit more digging to be done before the mists begin to clear...!

Regards,
Neil