Thread: could this be a real damacus straight?

Won it in an auction..didnt cost much..though it still looks very vintage..im thinking 1920's...thoughts?

Back in those days they used the term "Damascus" as marketing hype. What we refer to as Damascus today is more accurately 'pattern welded steel'. More than one layer of different alloys are forged in layers to make a blade and then an acid etch brings out the pattern of the different layers. That ought to be a good razor nevertheless.

Not to mention what Damascus Steel _actually_ was, which is a production method now forgotten. You can still see old Damascus swords and knives on Wikipedia, and they look nothing like modern "damascus" steel.
Damascus steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by tofagerl

Not to mention what Damascus Steel _actually_ was, which is a production method now forgotten. You can still see old Damascus swords and knives on Wikipedia, and they look nothing like modern "damascus" steel.
Damascus steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To be more specific, and cite this same article, John Verhoeven and Alfred Pendray have reproduced the long forgotten...wootz/bulat whatever you wish to name it. I agree that it is nothing like modern pattern welded steels both in chemistry and manufacture. But, it is not lost, not by any means.

Well, they claim to have gotten the same result, which is arguably more importalt than the specific method used.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

To be more specific, and cite this same article, John Verhoeven and Alfred Pendray have reproduced the long forgotten...wootz/bulat whatever you wish to name it. I agree that it is nothing like modern pattern welded steels both in chemistry and manufacture. But, it is not lost, not by any means.

There are classes being offered for making wootz/crucible/Damascus steel blanks... I have thought about taking the class by Richard Furrer for a while now. wootz class

Originally Posted by tofagerl

Well, they claim to have gotten the same result, which is arguably more importalt than the specific method used.

There are historic records of the fact that the original was smelted in crucibles in a similar (but more primitive) manner as the current process. For practical purposes, the process is not lost, even though we don't have the specifics of how they built the fire and which clay was used to make the crucibles.

to the OP

Look very very closely at the bottom of the Tang and the top of the Spine and see if there are not some very faint wavy lines in the steel..

I have pics on the other computer and will look for them.. I also think that most of the "Damascus" stamps were marketing, but I have seen a few, infact one was a Yankee Cut Co. that do show the lines if you look close..

I leave the "Real" Damascus -vs- Pattern Welded discussion to the Steel Bangers but some of the vintage razors stamped with Damascus do have something different going on with the steel...

Originally Posted by Hopper

There are classes being offered for making wootz/crucible/Damascus steel blanks... I have thought about taking the class by Richard Furrer for a while now. wootz class

Ric's a best friend of mine and good teacher. You'd have a good time at one of his classes. His shop is a mineshaft, dark, full of dangerous things and no room to swing a three foot bar sideways without hitting something very large and heavy. LOL.

I will offer anyone a damascus or pattern welded testing service. Send me your blades and I will dip them in nitric acid for a very short interval...then we'll be able to see a pattern right quick. That should put to rest any questions about the steel.

There is another possibility when a very faint, almost illusory pattern seems to be present. Some steels, depending on their heat history, may develop grain, or alloy banding. This is a segregation of the elements present in the bar of steel and is not either wootz or pattern welded material. I think it is kinda cool to see as a feature for the keen of eye looking for subtlety in the steel's appearance, but there are some arguments against it as a flaw in the processing. An acid etch will bring that out as well.

The more relatively crude quick and dirty acid testing could be supplanted by a very fine polishing regimen, or some warmed vinegar. The polish will require a keen eye. The vinegar will leave a slightly dulled gray surface but expose the pattern if it's there. It should be easy to polish back to clean again, but it has it's risks.

I have a Heljestrand frameback where there is noticable pattern to the steel. Problem is that the pattern is coming through the etching, making it harder to read. I'll post a pic when I get home.