Thread: Wootz! Joseph Rodgers "Indian Steel"

I'd never seen any blades but Stoddart stamped with the Sanskrit 'wootz. In all likelihood, the blade is made with steel refined from Indian ore. I'm guessing early 1840's. It's got an arris spine (between the rounded quill profile and the sharper swaged back) and that shallow little hollow point. The thumb notch and back are jimped with the kind of quality cut you'd expect on a good file.



It's a really beefy 7/8 blade. It's the Sanskrit that really grabbed my attention (though having a 7/8 Rodgers wedge surely is no great hardship). That's the same stamp (with simplification) that James Stodart used (seen here, the J. Stodart card at the bottom of Neil's post).



My guess of early 1840's is due to the combination of the Sanskrit and the Rodgers stamp. I'm working on the theory that having the wootz stamp pushes for earlier and the 'Their Majesties' is Victorian, so taken together early Victoria but post Albert. That's all just a guess though. For all I know Rodgers was using the 'Their Majesties' stamp during William III's reign or even George IV. My money is on Victoria though.



This is not a dainty blade. It's not quite the heaviest I've got (at least I don't think -- I haven't checked) but it's a solid chunk of steel (wootz!). Obviously it doesn't exhibit the watered pattern of Damascus steel, but as far as I've seen, none of the English-forged steels derived from Indian ore did.

Very cool blade. I like it.

It just seems that the old ones are so much more interesting than the new ones. Very nice!

That looks to be one serious piece of steel. Thanks for sharing it with us!

That is a really cool razor. I have a W&B 'Fine India Steel' razor. Helluva razor too, though not uncommon. Do you think it really is India steel and not just Sheffield ore with an etch designed to give it an exotic flair that would make it sell ? Wouldn't change the shave for me but I would like it better if I knew for sure that it was really India Steel.

Nice blade, but that is in all likely hood not wootz.
India steel, silver steel, magnetic, damascus, etc have all been used as marketing terms.
It could be any of the alloys they experimented with (hence the sanskrit) but to call it wootz you need some more evidence / confirmation from a metallurgist.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

That is a really cool razor. I have a W&B 'Fine India Steel' razor. Helluva razor too, though not uncommon. Do you think it really is India steel and not just Sheffield ore with an etch designed to give it an exotic flair that would make it sell ? Wouldn't change the shave for me but I would like it better if I knew for sure that it was really India Steel.

Ore was pretty regularly imported (it really helps to be on a river that can support huge barges) and the government was certainly doing a ... brisk ... business with India at the time. It's not remotely out of the question that Rodgers was using actual imported raw material from India. It's definitely a thing that was done. I've got a handful of 'Fine India Steel' razors, but this is the only one I've ever seen with sanskrit on it.

In any event, the main interest for me is the stamp. It's a humongous wedge. It's gonna be a pain to hone anyway, I don't really need it to be super awesome steel.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Nice blade, but that is in all likely hood not wootz.
India steel, silver steel, magnetic, damascus, etc have all been used as marketing terms.
It could be any of the alloys they experimented with (hence the sanskrit) but to call it wootz you need some more evidence / confirmation from a metallurgist.

Well no, wootz is just the Tamil word for steel and I don't think it's unreasonable to think the raw ore came from India. It's hair-splitting, I know. But the famous aspect -- the patterning -- comes from the processing, not the ore. This blade has bog-standard carbon steel oxidation.

Rodgers didn't begin their own steel refining until 1887, so all the material they made razors from was sourced from other local firms, and there were definitely folks in Sheffield making commercialized steel using material imported from India.

---

Hah, I got a lot more certain of things between the two replies above because I was shooting from the hip in replying to Jimmy, then I went back to original sources because I wasn't sure about Rodgers producing their own steel, and in the process read a lot more about the early use of wootz imported from India.

So yeah, I think it's reasonable to think the razor is made from imported metal. Just not prepared in the way that makes it what we think of as wootz.

The ore / raw steel might come from india indeed. That would make some sense, since the empire had a strong influence there.

So it may have traces of vanadium in it, along with anything else to make an alloy.
For it to be wootz it would need to be processed like wootz, in order to grow the dendritic structures that give wootz its distinct visual and mechanical properties.

I remember reading an article that, IIRC,said Wootz was made in small batches in India ? Here is a Wiki article on the topic. Go down page to get past the Samurai sword stuff to find the pertinent portion of the article. BTW, I had a Joe Chandler Wootz. IIRC Mike Blue did the heat treat on it. Perhaps he could enlighten us on Wootz because he probably knows more about steel than anyone on this board.

Here is another article I googled that has pix and an informative bit of text .....

http://www.buffaloriverforge.com/wootz/wootz.htm

would it be bad form to ask what you plan on doing with it?

I am just curious if you keep that as is, or restore it, and do you put it in a collection for display, or use it? It is a personal thing, and there is no wrong answer in my book...I am just curious what you choose for that beaut.

I would require some time to decide, I think.