Thread: Rolling X Stroke, Library Version

There seems to be a confusion (hand raised) between lifting the spine over the hone and lifting the spine off the hone.
Some of this makes the razor sound like a flexible object, like you could bend the spine to keep in contact with the hone.
If you are lifting the spine while the razor is over the hone you are effectively freehanding the blade as you would a knife. Some of us might be skilled enough to keep a small even bevel doing this. I am not.
Finally, there is a difference between regulated torque and lifting the spine? Wait...one more query: rocking would seem to be a literal fact if the spine of the razor is concave...along its length? Doesn't the bevel reflect the spine?

It can be as subtle as a transfer of pressure from heel to the toe while going through the stroke or as dramatic as the video of Charlie honing his smiler. Depends on the razor and depends on the condition of that razor. If you have a particular razor that is giving you a headache maybe the pros can give it some attention. your question was if the wiki was right or not and I believe the consensus that in theory it is.

Well in 2012 I sent out one razor to a pro. I haven't had to again since. Not that I don't respect experience but simply that I looked at honing as an enjoyable skill to learn and looked forward to being self sufficient.
On a side note, why would a mod take down ones post and not have the decency to tell you why they did this? Did they make a moral decision, or did someone object to your post? Is it unacceptable to meet snark with snark?

Ok bro, now i'm lost.

Originally Posted by WW243

There seems to be a confusion (hand raised) between lifting the spine over the hone and lifting the spine off the hone.
Some of this makes the razor sound like a flexible object, like you could bend the spine to keep in contact with the hone.
If you are lifting the spine while the razor is over the hone you are effectively freehanding the blade as you would a knife. Some of us might be skilled enough to keep a small even bevel doing this. I am not.
Finally, there is a difference between regulated torque and lifting the spine? Wait...one more query: rocking would seem to be a literal fact if the spine of the razor is concave...along its length? Doesn't the bevel reflect the spine?

Rolling -x is a simple concept, with a little bit more involved execution. As Glen pointed out all that is needed is to have simultaneous contact of bevel and spine above the bevel with the stone at the same time. As the stroke progresses bevel and spine above it have to simultaneously contact the hone. The point of the stroke is to deal with blades where the spine is off and one can't have full contact over the full length of the blade. The stroke also works well for smiling blades.

Originally Posted by WW243

Well in 2012 I sent out one razor to a pro. I haven't had to again since. Not that I don't respect experience but simply that I looked at honing as an enjoyable skill to learn and looked forward to being self sufficient.
On a side note, why would a mod take down ones post and not have the decency to tell you why they did this? Did they make a moral decision, or did someone object to your post? Is it unacceptable to meet snark with snark?

You asked a simple question and got simple answer. If your question was more elaborate to describe what you mean than you probably would have gotten a different answer. Attacking other members because you did not like the answer is not going to fly, especially when it is not relevant to the discussion. The reasons for deletion were also stated.
I hope we can keep this thread on topic now.

I think glen put it in the most simple terms. As long as you're under cutting the water from heel to toe on every stroke you're good.

Charlie's video of a rolling x is my go to just because the exaggeration of the motion needed with his smiler is so easy to interpret visually.

I don't think it can be stressed enough that each razor is an individual and each razor needs its own stroke. I have found that honing is mostly experience based like most things in life. All the info needed to hone is in the wiki, imo, it's the fact that reading how to do something and actually doing are 2 completely different things. What didn't translate well for me was the fact that 99% of honing is accomplished in the bevel set. I put the cart before the horse and wondered why my pretty shiny bevels left patches of stubble and blood in their wake.The bevel set is where you find what angle of approach and stroke that that inparticular razor needs and you create the edge that will eventually clean you beautiful little face of your beard.

In other words, I think an embedded video or link would be most helpful.

Every razor is going to behave differently on the hones. When we say that the spine is coming off the hone, we don't mean that you are actually free handing it. The spine is still in contact with the hone, just the part at the toe remains in contact so that the smile makes contact. I don't think the entire spine is ever fully removed, otherwise the bevel would be thrown off. Sometimes razors that have been improperly honed will need to be honed into the stabilizers. If the edge has been honed enough, you don't have an option but to eat into the stabilizer so that the edge can contact the hone.

Maybe somebody should take all the info presented in this thread and go update that Wiki Article


Jimbo and Gugi can explain how to do that if you are interested

The wiki is member driven it isn't just for Staff


ps: You need to recontour the Shoulder if you are hitting it while honing, or it will either not hone the very edge or create a Heel hook..

Originally Posted by prodigy

Every razor is going to behave differently on the hones. When we say that the spine is coming off the hone, we don't mean that you are actually free handing it. The spine is still in contact with the hone, just the part at the toe remains in contact so that the smile makes contact. I don't think the entire spine is ever fully removed, otherwise the bevel would be thrown off. Sometimes razors that have been improperly honed will need to be honed into the stabilizers. If the edge has been honed enough, you don't have an option but to eat into the stabilizer so that the edge can contact the hone.

Ok, I'm honing in on the rolling X which seems to have more than one definition. Charlie Lewis lifts the spine of the smiling blade out of parallel with the hone, as it leaves the hone. In a perfect world you would simply move a razor down the hone with a spine that was parallel to the hone, a perfect grind (for a non smiling razor).
I think I get slightly obsessive over words.
I would like to see an expert take several razors, smiling, uneven honewear, warped blade etc. and make a video similar to Charlie Lewis' but with a little more light and in slower motion...I think his camera setup is an excellent aid, close up head on.
If I overthink the geometry of the rolling X my brain still scrambles slightly because one is suggesting a roll, when you are actually altering the angle of a plane.
The movement of the hands and arms are quite 'rolling.'