Thread: Classifieds/Honing Services

Its possible I annoyed the wrong crowd with my post - it was meant to be aimed squarely at the type of people mentioned in Utopian's post - basically, guys who just see $$ and try and rip people off - not at guys who have a high ethical/moral standard.

After reading some of the responses, I am quickly coming to the conclusion that, as rickboone said, "there is no right answer" (and the same conclusion that everyone else appears to have come to - maybe i'm a bit slow (no need to agree)).

I do agree that its not just our responsibility to look after newbies - they need to take some responsibility and research for themselves etc.

I guess we do the best we can, and that is all we can be expected to do.

Originally Posted by Ryan82

Now there's a solution....

Perhaps before someone is allowed to offer services for a fee, such as honing, restorations etc, the member must submit examples of their work to senior members (like Lynn, Glen, so forth) for inspection. If they feel the members work is up to snuff they are then allowed to advertise their service.

Sounds draconian and all, but in the interests of preserving the integrity here at SRP it might be an idea.

The problem with this approach, as I alluded to in my original post, is that the guys I would trust to determine the quality of honing skill are the guys you have mentioned, however they offer similar services. It would put them in an awkward position, with the prospect of them being accused of denying "certification" to their own benefit. I cant see any of these guys doing that, but the fact that someone could accuse them of it, would not sit right with me (I would not like to be put in that position myself).

There are just too many variables, even a pro has problems sometimes, a lot of times what I consider smooth is considered too sharp by others, whatever that is. I think the main thing is that everyones needs are different, different skin texture, different hair texture, different blade and grinds, different soaps and preps, expectations, and on and on. I shoot for perfection..... for me. Thats the best I can do, satisfy myself. Like Ron, I get somewhat paranoid about it, I want to give you the best that can be had. But honing for someone else is a lot like driving at night without headlights, you dont know where you are going with this.

I think it would be great to have an impartial panel of judges, but is the razor they receive actually honed by the member applying for the honor. If the judges sent a razor to the applicant who was to send it back to the judge(s), how would you know that he indeed honed it.

SRP has a true free market type system for this, either you pass or fail, yes a few people get burned, but its a live and learn world, no way around it. It doesnt need to be changed. My suggestion is this, and I know its not possible for everyone, do the razor meets, examine other peoples work and let yours be seen as well. I was lucky, Sham lives very close and is my greatest mentor 90% of what I have learned from others, I have learned from him.

The only way you could make a panel of judges work, is to put the applicant in front of them, they give him a number of razors of different sizes and grinds as well as problems (frowns, chips, corroded edges, excessive spinewear, etc) and let the poor bugger got to town under the watchful eyes of the panel of judges. This isnt going to happen, except at a meet up. We need to rely on ourselves and our integrity to make SRP work, and to be honest, it works quite well. For this, I thank all of you.

Originally Posted by Utopian

This same subject of a judging panel has been discussed before and the upshot is, it's just not practical.

Agreed. Would be WAY too easy to get someone to hone up a razor for you, then send it to the panel for verification, and all of a sudden you have a honing certification based on someone else's skills.

I much prefer Glen's idea about doing something at the meets - at least that way the panel knows a person actually did the work. Then you run into the issue of making sure the person can honing a smiling, frowning, etc, blade. Still sounding "messy" IMHO.

Originally Posted by wedwards

Its possible I annoyed the wrong crowd with my post - it was meant to be aimed squarely at the type of people mentioned in Utopian's post - basically, guys who just see $$ and try and rip people off - not at guys who have a high ethical/moral standard.

IMO there was nothing wrong with your post. As previously noted by more than one poster, this issue has come up in the past. It has been dissected and looked at from all angles by many of the members participating at the time and no practical solution was found. Theoretical solutions yes, but none that were workable. Lynn has enough to do without becoming the clearing house for aspiring SRP honemeisters who want to hang a shingle.

No one wants to see an incompetent take any SRP member's money under false pretenses through deliberate fraud or because they have too optimistic a view of their ability. As someone said, word gets around and that is, for now, the only solution that seems to be workable. That and caveat emptor.

Originally Posted by wedwards

I much prefer Glen's idea about doing something at the meets - at least that way the panel knows a person actually did the work. Then you run into the issue of making sure the person can honing a smiling, frowning, etc, blade. Still sounding "messy" IMHO.

Aye, messy, but ultimately much more fun too

Honestly, I have learned more at the meets then you could imagine, they are very very good...

Now when is the "Down Unda" meet ????

I still reckon my solution to this would work - all aspiring honemeisters send me a self-honed Mappin and Webb Lancet edge (non-refundable) with 500 USD. I will send you back a bonefide Jimbo-accredited honemeister certificate. Can't say fairer than that.

James.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Aye, messy, but ultimately much more fun too

Honestly, I have learned more at the meets then you could imagine, they are very very good...

Now when is the "Down Unda" meet ????

Well if all...What?!...Five of us, got together somewhere close to all of us, say at Ayers Rock. That should only be about 3000kms average driving distance...


Mick

Originally Posted by gssixgun

***Looks at the calendar "hmmm yep been about 8 months"

Sorta J/K

This comes up about every 8 months or so...

I have never thought of a solution that would work, but I do know that offering free honing on a one to one basis to someone struggling is not against any rule here in fact it is the true spirit of this forum...
In fact if that spirit is picked up by people here, everything seems to work out just fine and has always been that way...

Wanna hone???? offer to help, that person will let others know and it grows from there....
That is exactly what Joe Chandler told me at this site when I joined, and it worked out pretty darn good... I didn't do anything but offer my help, and pretty soon, people were asking me for help...
I never offered restores either, I just did my own, and offered some up, for some of the giveaways, and pretty soon people were asking me for restores...
If you just take the time to help which is what SRP is all about, it all comes together...

Now maybe I am a bit naive, but in my eyes if you do good work, and treat people fair they will come and find you....

As to an SRP sponsored "Honemeister badge".... there is one, Lynn has is...
look under his name


Edit: I have no solution to the idea of the "Panel" it always sounds good and rather easy but OMG what a nightmare it could really be..
Now maybe as the Meets grow, that might make it possible...

Doing it in person may be a good thing. I think we could work together and make anything possible. That's just me though. Sure, some things have potential to be a nightmare.

Okay, so don't make it a badge, per se. Just some verification process. What I'm saying is this; a member has a razor that he's honed. He sends it to say; glen, lynn, holli, bill, tim, myself or someone else newer to shave with the blade (newer person takes away honing biasness) (is biasness a word?), make notes and send it onto the next person. Whatever, those are all details as far as developing testers panel. Point is many would try it and make a decision. I do agree doing good work and treating people right will follow you. Nothing could be truer. However, as the statement was brought up, anyone can offer honing services, with no real verification they can hone well.

Originally Posted by wedwards

Agreed. Would be WAY too easy to get someone to hone up a razor for you, then send it to the panel for verification, and all of a sudden you have a honing certification based on someone else's skills.

I much prefer Glen's idea about doing something at the meets - at least that way the panel knows a person actually did the work. Then you run into the issue of making sure the person can honing a smiling, frowning, etc, blade. Still sounding "messy" IMHO.

I would doubt someone would go through all the effort to have someone else hone their blade for them in an attempt to gain business. They're now doing this everytime a client sends a blade to them. They have to send it to someone else. Or, say they try to do it themselves with their lacking skills, word would get out soon enough.

I do like the idea as well of doing things in person. Just another excuse for us to get together. Develop an SRP honing certification process. Who knows? But, is in person practical? Take our participants across the pond... Much easier to send a blade here for review.

As far as smiling, frowning, etc. some honers are going to be more skilled at certain things than others. One person may be best at fixing problems, another at getting the best edge on the blade, another best at this type of steel/ blade, etc. So, to say a person has to pass a test of a frowning blade may be doing a bit of an injustice to their skill. They would just simply pass on the frowning blade and recommend a more skilled honer to do this particular job.

At the end of the day, is this really a problem that needs fixing? Are there a number of people offering their services and submitting sub-par work? Sure, the suggestions here could offer help. But is the help needed?

I've got about 32 more years before I could say I can comfortably hone, so it doesn't matter to me.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

IMO there was nothing wrong with your post. As previously noted by more than one poster, this issue has come up in the past. It has been dissected and looked at from all angles by many of the members participating at the time and no practical solution was found. Theoretical solutions yes, but none that were workable. Lynn has enough to do without becoming the clearing house for aspiring SRP honemeisters who want to hang a shingle.

No one wants to see an incompetent take any SRP member's money under false pretenses through deliberate fraud or because they have too optimistic a view of their ability. As someone said, word gets around and that is, for now, the only solution that seems to be workable. That and caveat emptor.

Very well said.