Thread: Newbs and the wiki

asking a question also gives us newcomers a chance to see who's approachable, who's friendly, who's a dick, and so on.

that makes sense to us, noisykids, because that is the normal etiquette in threads in websites, but this site, I recently found out, is different in that there are several designated mentors/moderators who actually have the job of keeping thread info accurate and answering questions to the best of their ability. Then think there's 30,000 members on this site. I'd say we can all agree they do pretty good under the circumstances, And maybe appreciate knowing how we feel about the interaction, too

I thought about this a bit and drafted two responses, and then this occurred to me.

We have set up a self perpetuating cycle. For the most part, the vets answer questions in threads, and that is definitely fantastic. But those threads get buried or die off or go off topic, and it can be very difficult for a newbie (especially a newbie who is not familiar with internet forums) to find the information. We have the wiki, which is great, but I personally do not think it is particularly easy to navigate. So the new guys ask more questions, which get answered and buried, and the cycle continues.

I think the solution lies in keeping the wiki updated, making it easier to navigate, and making the wiki as a whole and the basic level tutorial type articles in particular more visible.

I personally would be happy to write articles for the wiki, but I am terrible with the larger picture organizational/structural aspect, so I need someone to tell me specifically what to write about and what level of detail (based on where the given article will fit into the picture). If there are people interested in revitalizing the wiki, I know the effort would be hugely appreciated, and I'd love to get involved in the writing capacity.

From what I've seen recently, the problem is less with asking questions, and more with people who know nothing on the matter yet feel entitled that their opinion is as valuable as anybody else's.

Sometimes this is just noise that makes it harder and more confusing to figure out the correct information, sometimes it's bad advise (even if well intentioned) which when followed will do more harm than good.

One very easy way to fix this is for the staff to simply ban members that are causing more confusion. But that doesn't make for a very welcoming place either. Sometimes people do get banned, but they get the benefit of doubt for a while.

There is an inherent tension between having more open discussion where everybody can say whatever they want be it true or false, or even having to back up their arguments, and having more of an expert answers which would be far more helpful.

As an active member of some other internet forums, some thoughts come to mind:

Fortunately, the Wiki can be EXTREMELY helpful; especially if you have free time and can peruse it aimlessly, as it is very easy to stumble upon new and useful tidbits. It can also be difficult to search or even to know what it is you are searching for unless you already know. UNfortunately, I have found that more often than not, experience and advice is needed to learn what it is you need to learn. (ie, the more I learn, the more I learn how much I haven't learned.)

There are better ways to keep the "Wiki" updated. For instance, a forum I frequent is the : FJ Cruiser Forums They have a "Tech" section that is an extensive read only thread of various how to's. They were threads that were reviewed by the moderators and deemed "worthy" of immortalization. The original threads are also separately maintained so that comments and questions may be posted. There is also a "Staging area" so that ideas of threads may be submitted for the moderators review. See below:


This method seems to work very well.

As far as performing searches, the results(for me at least) have been hit or miss. Even using fairly specific search terms results in a plethora of results that need to be waded through. I do not always have the time to do so and sometimes find it more suitable to post the question directly.




Finally, a short(i hope) rant. If there is a question posted in the Beginners section of the forum that is answered in the wiki, either answer it politely and correctly,perhaps make reference(via a link if possible) to the appropriate thread or Wiki section, or; if it offends you so greatly that a newb would have the gall to ask a question that you in all of your encyclopedic knowledge of the topic could pontificate at great lengths about: PERUSE ANOTHER SECTION OF THE FORUM. What is the Beginners section for if not for newb's to ask questions that require an experienced answer? This is an internet forum to discuss, educate, and (i hope) advance the hobby of straight razor shaving. As a member you should be here to learn AND SHARE the knowledge gained by the group as a whole. This is not a private club with strictly regulated rules of conduct and entry, but a public, semi-social, and informal means of learning about a topic. In other words, LIGHTEN UP!




Ok, I'm better now.
;D

Webs, I totally respect your right to rant, but please be mindful that for every rant, there is an equal and opposite re-rant.

Originally Posted by Birnando

To me, this site is an awesome place for finding info on all things shaving related. Don't you agree?

I do indeed & on my "newb intolerant days" it's easy to move on to the next thread or walk away from the computer. SRP will not crumble without my input on that particular day or subject.

Originally Posted by Theseus

Why doesn't my razor pass the hanginh hair test? Is it because I tape the spine while honing? The razor in question is a vintage Gold Dollar I bought on Ebay.

Sorry. I couldn't resist the opportunity.

That's Gold !

This thread does indeed bring up some interesting points. I can appreciate arguments from both sides. However, seeing the response from senior members, "check the wiki", is about as tedious as daily repetitive newb questions. I also believe it's against the community spirit of SRP.

I will agree that, at this point, the best option would be to begin the process of updating the wiki. Or, as gugi suggested, we could just start banning members who are being difficult....

Originally Posted by Ryan82

This thread does indeed bring up some interesting points. I can appreciate arguments from both sides. However, seeing the response from senior members, "check the wiki", is about as tedious as daily repetitive newb questions. I also believe it's against the community spirit of SRP.

I will agree that, at this point, the best option would be to begin the process of updating the wiki. Or, as gugi suggested, we could just start banning members who are being difficult....

Well said and Thank-you. I don't think we need to ban members who are being difficult, whether they're senior or new members, they are willingly participating in an open forum and if they don't like the questions/respones being asked or given, becoming less tolerant of the repetitive questions, lack doing doing any sort of research in the wiki for answers to questions answered a bajillion times, then take a self-imposed vacation from SRP for a week or two. In that time away, one just might remember why they enjoy this forum so much and decide to return with a more positive attitude.

As one who is fairly new to the game myself, but has been here for a few months now, I understand the veterans' frustrations. I myself, dug and dug and dug for information. I looked at wikis. I looked at countless threads and bookmarked them. This was the FIRST forum I have joined, and it was quite intimidating with thousands of threads floating around. It took me quite a while just lurking around in order to become comfortable enough to even post a question.

It is easy to say, "I did all the research myself, so should every one else." Life just doesn't work that way. Some people like the information presented to them in a nice and tidy form, while others enjoy the thrill of discovery.

There are a lot of new hobbies and trade that I have discovered or learned more about in here. Small woodworking. Honing. Restoring. Tobacco pipes. Liquors. It has been great, but sometimes, you find yourself asking a question, and once it has been answered, you think... "Duh! I'm an idiot. How did I not know that?"

I have asked some very dumb newbie questions myself. I feel like those new to the game (I definitely still include myself here) ask those mundane questions as a matter of reassurance. Am I on the right track? Am I just on crack?

Sure - there is an abundance of "is the Dovo such-and-such a good razor" type of questions. If they rub you wrong, simply pass them by. Eventually, someone else will answer - whether right or wrong, experienced or not - or the inquirer will dig a little deeper and find the answer for themselves.

I have found this community to be very supportive of what could be considered a lost art. Let's be honest... most of us can't just pop into the living room and ask our dads how to shave with a straight.