Thread: Newbs and the wiki

Originally Posted by daflorc

For instance, my first ever post, when I explained that I had a brand spanking new, "shave ready" dovo that gave me 2-3 decent shaves before starting to pull, and that 200 featherlight strokes on a 8,000 grit stone did nothing but polish the bevel and did nothing to increase the sharpness, it would be difficult to know exactly what the problem was for anybody wishing to give advice.
However,
When approached with this problem, the answers I got were this:

"Learn to shave first, and take your razor to get honed by someone who knows what they're doing"

"consult the wiki and watch the instructional video"

"(insert multiple links from wiki to answer question)"

"you're not stropping properly"

"you're honing wrong and dulling the edge, or putting too much pressure"

"Don't try to learn how to hone and shave at the same time"

"you're holding the razor at the wrong angle"

When I suggested that maybe dovo didn't do a great job honing, I got this:

"So, you think the guys that sharpen razors for a living didn't sharpen your razor correctly, right?"

and

"How did you get 2-3 good shaves if they didn't set the bevel?"

Now, i've been a woodworker since high school, spent several years doing chip carving as a hobby, and honing my knives on 1,000 and 2,000 grit stones to perfect result for my purpose, and i watched every instructional video on razors and read everything I could find about honing razors BEFORE ever asking questions on SRP. I bought a 3 inch wide finishing hone so I could ensure proper form and use a 2 handed, modified push stroke so i could keep the entire length of the blade on the hone and push it forward without x strokes and without taking the edge off the stone and without putting pressure on the blade.

When I explained this, I still got the same answers, many repeated, probably because some posters didnt read the entire thread.

..Well, As it turned out, dovo didnt adequately set the bevel, but somehow sharpened it to a weak (but sharp) edge, which wore out quickly, and once I did a simple pyramid the shaver worked fine, even better than when I got it.


Can you see how someone might feel when we encounter a problem and get those answers every time, because everyone assumes we're totally clueless?

I posted in your thread as well. I was confused because you gave me the impression that your razor was professionally honed. You meant: it was honed by DOVO, I got the impression it was honed by a honemeister. 2nd is that apparently (I did not know this) DOVO hone their razors in a funny way with the spine off the hone. As soon as you start to hone you first have to reset the bevel.

It is always hard to assess a problem from a distance without seeing the razor and how the newb hones, strops and shaves. That's why you may get answers that don't help your particular problems. The commonest problems are usually addressed 1st by those trying to help.

Is it weird that I really like that 12 pages of threads pop up on my searches?

I like reading through various threads because, more often than not, the question is answered and you can see several things relating to it that you didn't think about.

The wiki is indeed great, but starting out the thing I remember hitting against was that I often did not know enough about things to know what to look for. I actually got the majority of my information from the various stickies all over the sections. Those guys have a TON of information in them, and a lot for them are written with beginners specifically in mind.

Originally Posted by gugi

I personally would really like to see more involvement and more constructive suggestions how to make this place better. I like seeing 'I don't like this' too, but expecting for somebody else to figure out a better way to do what you don't like and then do it doesn't really make things happen.

I was hesitant to post last night as I couldn't think of any direct suggestions for improvement, only criticisms. Being in management I'm used to people criticizing my processes but I do get irked when no suggestion to better it is offered. However, after posting and thinking about things last night and this morning while I'm slacking a bit, my suggestion involves combining reviews, the wiki, and the forums.

Not a straight up slapping them all together, but going with how the reviews of various products are posted in the top of the forums, perhaps post a link to the wiki that will take people the correct part of the wiki.
For example, if I'm in the beginner's forum there is the contests and giveaways and new member introductions. Below that is a handful of useful stickies. Perhaps putting some of those stickies in to the wiki under a beginning shaver section and just having a link there to the information that is contained in some of those stickies. I also think it would help if the experienced members who are sick of answering the same old questions every day or two would make a list of said questions (or the tech folks could probably run a search on their end of the most common words used in new threads in the beginner section and make a list of relevant topics from it), answer them, distill the answers together, then add them to the wiki and provide a link in the beginner's forum entitled "Answers to most common questions" or some such easily understood name.

Hello everyone,

I am a fellow newbie with roughly two months of consistent SR shaving.

(BTW, I prefer the term “newbie” over “noob” - noob looks too much like boob. I like boobs, but not in this context )


Let me first say that I greatly appreciate all the hard work put into this amazing forum by the veterans and newcomers alike. THANK YOU! Seriously. THANK YOU!

That said, I must concur with some of the other members that the Wiki pages are not as user-friendly as they perhaps could be. I find the FAQ section easier to navigate. At the same time, however, the FAQ section is not as detailed or complete as the wiki pages are in certain instances. Perhaps the Wiki section and FAQ can be combined in some way?

In any event ……. in an effort to be constructive and carry my share of water, I’ll commit over the next week or two to compile a list of topics/changes that I - as a newbie - would personally find useful in the FAQ/Wiki sections. It just might be useful to get a newbie’s perspective - then, again, it may not??? Would this be helpful or an annoying distraction from a Junior Member?

Originally Posted by MaritimeFanatic

Is it weird that I really like that 12 pages of threads pop up on my searches?

I like reading through various threads because, more often than not, the question is answered and you can see several things relating to it that you didn't think about.

The wiki is indeed great, but starting out the thing I remember hitting against was that I often did not know enough about things to know what to look for. I actually got the majority of my information from the various stickies all over the sections. Those guys have a TON of information in them, and a lot for them are written with beginners specifically in mind.

I agree with your comments here. You can learn a lot, especially of things you didn't know you'd want to know, by filtering through those 12 pages of search results, but with two jobs, three kids, and a wife I don't always have time to just sit and feast on information. I need something quicker that hits the spot.

I think a google indexed search feature would probably be a great enhancement to the searching of old threads (I pop out to google, search for what I want, then click on the "view more finds from SRP" link to find info). I still don't think that's going to decrease the "stupid" threads. The guys who have the forethought to search, probably have the forethought to think through their questions, and enough experience not to ask the questions.

The only other suggestion I could offer would be a more reader friendly approach that falls in the face of new guys in a way that's nearly impossible to ignore, ie a pop-up or PM autosent when someone signs up. I know when I get PM's they pop up a dialogue box on my screen which can't be ignored. Maybe an auto-sent PM directing to an updated Wiki with a BRIEF primer on how the forum works would help?

Maybe it would be of benefit for the Wiki to start out with just 2 sections: New to SRP? New to Straight Razors? The first could take you through a QUICK article on Forum ettiquette (I know a lot of this is covered already in the SRP User Agreement, but perhaps it could be edited down for a quick primer), using the search feature, & maybe promote thread resurrection (if that's something that'd be agreed upon as preferrable), then move you on to section two: New to Straight Razors. That section is pretty well covered in the current format...could maybe use a little refinement, but I know I got a lot out of it.

Again, I like the Wiki. Maybe it can be refined, and I'd like to be able to contribute, but my lack of experience in this arena disqualifies me, I believe. I would be willing to proof read/edit any new articles. That's something I can do.

Also, could the color of the menu bar be changed ie to blue so it stands out more? I know that at first I scanned past the menu bar because it's the same dark color as the background of the header. Then once I noticed it I had to keep reminding myself, "Oh yeah, the wiki's there, the community page is there, etc."

Coming at a problem with answers instead of complaints is always best.

This has been a great thread and thank you to all participants.

How bout those of you who can write, start adding some more product reviews too........

O.k. I think everyone is trying to make the wiki something it is not.

The wiki does not replace the forum. The wiki supplements the forum.
If you notice wiki articles have references in them to forum discussions on the topic.

Forums are designed for discussion, not an information repository.
Think of the Wiki more as a manual and the forums as the "tech support".

If you have ever worked Tech Support this discussion will remind you of RTFM

I will repeat my plea from earlier. If you find the wiki hard to navigate, let us know what you find difficult.

If you think an article is wrong or missing information, update it ,or request an update and discuss why you think it is wrong.

Making vague complaints fixes nothing.

Originally Posted by BigJim

I think a google indexed search feature would probably be a great enhancement to the searching of old threads (I pop out to google, search for what I want, then click on the "view more finds from SRP" link to find info).

http://straightrazorpalace.com/site-...h-plugins.html

We are also looking at some enhancements once we upgrade the site. Stay tuned for new and exiting features! Well new at least.

Coming at a problem with answers instead of complaints is always best.

One thing I'd like to suggest, if itJs even possible, is to thin out the old forums. Since the origional complaint was about noobs asking the same question over and over again, why not whittle the amount of forums down to one or two of the best threads covering these questions? It would eliminate a lot of the dead threads and clean up the forum where things could be found quicker and easier.

Originally Posted by Theseus

One thing I'd like to suggest, if itJs even possible, is to thin out the old forums. Since the origional complaint was about noobs asking the same question over and over again, why not whittle the amount of forums down to one or two of the best threads covering these questions? It would eliminate a lot of the dead threads and clean up the forum where things could be found quicker and easier.

That is probably the worst idea I have read in this thread...

You all need to go back and re-read Slart's /Ben's last post then re-read it again...

Really grasp what he said there, because he hit the nail dead center...

"Forums are designed for discussion, not an information repository.
Think of the Wiki more as a manual, and the forums as the "tech support".

The Wiki has been sitting there ready to be added to, since all of you signed onto this forum yet hardly any of you add to it..
You wait for the "Experts" to do that...

I got news for ya those of us that are honing and restoring are busy doing that...
It is hard enough to get a thread together let alone for us to learn how to put it in the Wiki... Do you realize how much time it takes some of us with limited computer skills and slow Internet to put those illustrated guides together???
Not to mention that each thread that presents a new idea which needs to be distilled though the forum process before it goes to the Wiki... The worst thing that can happen is BS info in the Wiki here at SRP, we are known to have proved info not BS and that won't change...

I do a Beginners Tips post every month , every month somebody says, this should go in the Wiki, yet NOBODY takes the time to do it.. I do the tips, you want them in the Wiki have at it... I don't know how, nor do I have the time to learn

Remember what Dylan said about a re-rant?? there it was, and I bet not one person on this thread takes that to heart and does any Wiki work except maybe Birnado he seems like he actually might

This is your house too, you want it cleaned up ??? pick up a broom and get to work

End of rant... and my apologies