Thread: Newbs and the wiki

i think the problem is we think that the forum is aimed at answering questions and whatnot. If you're not answering questions, what are you going to talk about?

Besides, isn't this like the boy scouts, where the older, more experienced scouts teach the greenbacks? And try to keep the tradition of straight shaving alive?

However, I can completely understand that when you have 30,000 members, and more than half are newbees like me, repeating the same answers over, and over, and over can drive you crazy. But, being a nube, I sometimes feel ashamed I asked a question when someone else responds disrespectfully or in an irritated tone, or talks to me like I'm stone dumb. I'm sure its hard dealing with us, but keep in mind we are fascinated with our new hobby, and look at you guys like friends who can help us win this new game

Originally Posted by daflorc

i think the problem is we think that the forum is aimed at answering questions and whatnot. If you're not answering questions, what are you going to talk about?

Of course questions are welcomed on this site!
And a lot of the members here try their very best to answer them as well.

I have always felt that the members here really went out of their way to guide me and other newcomers in the best possible way.
As I have gained in experience myself, I have tried to do the same, to the best of my current knowledge.

As to what we should talk about, in addition to answering questions, is of course our experiences. All the stuff we learn, our mistakes and our successes.

Then, after a while, all our combined knowledge and discussions are readily available in the different sub-forums, and thru the search function and the Wiki.
To me, this site is an awesome place for finding info on all things shaving related. Don't you agree?

Originally Posted by Birnando

To me, this site is an awesome place for finding info on all things shaving related. Don't you agree?

I do indeed & on my "newb intolerant days" it's easy to move on to the next thread or walk away from the computer. SRP will not crumble without my input on that particular day or subject.

Originally Posted by Theseus

Why doesn't my razor pass the hanginh hair test? Is it because I tape the spine while honing? The razor in question is a vintage Gold Dollar I bought on Ebay.

Sorry. I couldn't resist the opportunity.

That's Gold !

This thread does indeed bring up some interesting points. I can appreciate arguments from both sides. However, seeing the response from senior members, "check the wiki", is about as tedious as daily repetitive newb questions. I also believe it's against the community spirit of SRP.

I will agree that, at this point, the best option would be to begin the process of updating the wiki. Or, as gugi suggested, we could just start banning members who are being difficult....

Originally Posted by Ryan82

This thread does indeed bring up some interesting points. I can appreciate arguments from both sides. However, seeing the response from senior members, "check the wiki", is about as tedious as daily repetitive newb questions. I also believe it's against the community spirit of SRP.

I will agree that, at this point, the best option would be to begin the process of updating the wiki. Or, as gugi suggested, we could just start banning members who are being difficult....

Well said and Thank-you. I don't think we need to ban members who are being difficult, whether they're senior or new members, they are willingly participating in an open forum and if they don't like the questions/respones being asked or given, becoming less tolerant of the repetitive questions, lack doing doing any sort of research in the wiki for answers to questions answered a bajillion times, then take a self-imposed vacation from SRP for a week or two. In that time away, one just might remember why they enjoy this forum so much and decide to return with a more positive attitude.

As one who is fairly new to the game myself, but has been here for a few months now, I understand the veterans' frustrations. I myself, dug and dug and dug for information. I looked at wikis. I looked at countless threads and bookmarked them. This was the FIRST forum I have joined, and it was quite intimidating with thousands of threads floating around. It took me quite a while just lurking around in order to become comfortable enough to even post a question.

It is easy to say, "I did all the research myself, so should every one else." Life just doesn't work that way. Some people like the information presented to them in a nice and tidy form, while others enjoy the thrill of discovery.

There are a lot of new hobbies and trade that I have discovered or learned more about in here. Small woodworking. Honing. Restoring. Tobacco pipes. Liquors. It has been great, but sometimes, you find yourself asking a question, and once it has been answered, you think... "Duh! I'm an idiot. How did I not know that?"

I have asked some very dumb newbie questions myself. I feel like those new to the game (I definitely still include myself here) ask those mundane questions as a matter of reassurance. Am I on the right track? Am I just on crack?

Sure - there is an abundance of "is the Dovo such-and-such a good razor" type of questions. If they rub you wrong, simply pass them by. Eventually, someone else will answer - whether right or wrong, experienced or not - or the inquirer will dig a little deeper and find the answer for themselves.

I have found this community to be very supportive of what could be considered a lost art. Let's be honest... most of us can't just pop into the living room and ask our dads how to shave with a straight.

As someone who is newb to the world of straight razors but not a newb to the internet and the joys and pains of forums, I think SRP's wiki is pretty useful. I browsed it for a week or two before I joined.
However, it does leave a lot to be desired. The times that I have tried to search it seem to get me stuck in just searching that particular part of the wiki. Or when I do find some info that is pertinent it isn't as detailed as I would like.
Then I try doing forum searches. I usually net some useful information but what if I want more?
Right now if you so a search for "Rolls Razor" (yes, I found one for $10 at the local antique shop and figured if I couldn't get it shaving well it's at least a sweet looking case) you will get 12 pages of results. The first thread that looks to actually deal with the subject is the 14th thread down. There are a couple of posts from this year but it's essentially a dead thread with mosts of the posts dating from 2009. There may well be more information for me to find, but to search through 12 pages of threads is a project that would take days, if not weeks due to work, kids, trying to spend time with the wife, trying to occasionally do something with a "real life" friend that I can see in person.
If I wanted to find out more about this item either before I purchase it or before I ruin it or my face using it, I would probably ask a question on the forums and hope for either an answer that is helpful or a link to another discussion of said item so that I can learn as much about it as possible in a timely fashion.
Not all of us nublets mind doing some research but when you're faced with what could be a multi-day search of staring at the PC screen, clicking that handy little "New Thread" button is mighty tempting.

Originally Posted by gugi

From what I've seen recently, the problem is less with asking questions, and more with people who know nothing on the matter yet feel entitled that their opinion is as valuable as anybody else's.

Interestingly, we covered this issue on a thread here. The only way to combat this and maintain the open atmosphere (that balance of tension) is to tag every post (or create an atmosphere of) "Reader discretion is advised". I know I could have easily been led astray several times were it not for several experienced members ignoring the bad advice of others and tactfully asserting their opinion/experience, or supporting what good advice was already posted.

Originally Posted by WebsII

...threads that were reviewed by the moderators and deemed "worthy" of immortalization. The original threads are also separately maintained so that comments and questions may be posted.

Would you be willing to develop a Thread Valhalla?

Originally Posted by bharner

As someone who is newb to the world of straight razors but not a newb to the internet and the joys and pains of forums, I think SRP's wiki is pretty useful. I browsed it for a week or two before I joined.
...when I do find some info that is pertinent it isn't as detailed as I would like.
...Not all of us nublets mind doing some research but when you're faced with what could be a multi-day search of staring at the PC screen, clicking that handy little "New Thread" button is mighty tempting.

I'm also not new to forums (though a complete novice to Straights and even DE/SE's). When I do find an old thread that's useful, it's usually because google pulled it up for me. When searching via the forum utility my results are copious and uninformative. It may be just what I've searched for, but consider how repetitive our vocabulary is here from razor names to terms like scales, hone, etc. They can show up as a brief mention, or as the heart of a thread, but you don't know without sifting through days worth of threads.

In the instance that I do find an old thread I almost always have more quesions. In that case I keep the habit that I've built from my Auto forums, and resurrect that old thread, that way threads on the same topic are consolidated (instead of a bajillion threads on faux tortoise shell scales, you only have a million).

I'm 100% sure I've asked some dumb questions here. Thankfully no one has been short or rude to me. I really appreciate the time and attention all you senior guys have given my learning curve. As a guy with a Master's level education it can be a little humbling to ask simple questions and you guys have been great.

BTW, I did read the wiki and learned a lot from it, though I'm the kind of guy who prefers personal interaction to archival explorations, making threads my preferred avenue for education.

Thanks again for all of you who've put up with my questions (and not stomped on me when/if I've offered advice that wasn't in line with your greater experience and knowledge).

Originally Posted by bharner

As someone who is newb to the world of straight razors but not a newb to the internet and the joys and pains of forums, I think SRP's wiki is pretty useful. I browsed it for a week or two before I joined.
However, it does leave a lot to be desired. The times that I have tried to search it seem to get me stuck in just searching that particular part of the wiki. Or when I do find some info that is pertinent it isn't as detailed as I would like.
Then I try doing forum searches. I usually net some useful information but what if I want more?
Right now if you so a search for "Rolls Razor" (yes, I found one for $10 at the local antique shop and figured if I couldn't get it shaving well it's at least a sweet looking case) you will get 12 pages of results. The first thread that looks to actually deal with the subject is the 14th thread down. There are a couple of posts from this year but it's essentially a dead thread with mosts of the posts dating from 2009. There may well be more information for me to find, but to search through 12 pages of threads is a project that would take days, if not weeks due to work, kids, trying to spend time with the wife, trying to occasionally do something with a "real life" friend that I can see in person.
If I wanted to find out more about this item either before I purchase it or before I ruin it or my face using it, I would probably ask a question on the forums and hope for either an answer that is helpful or a link to another discussion of said item so that I can learn as much about it as possible in a timely fashion.
Not all of us nublets mind doing some research but when you're faced with what could be a multi-day search of staring at the PC screen, clicking that handy little "New Thread" button is mighty tempting.

You sound like you're going thru all the right processes & the "new thread" solution will often get you the answer you need but the senior members need to be cut some slack too if they seem short . After all the 12 days inconvenience you talk about when browsing may find you some information that took others decades to learn by experience & hard work. Not justifying rude replies, just that we're all human