Thread: Glycerine Versus tallow and so forth how it all works..

Well with this thread it is going to probably do many things. Either everyone is going to be happy and informed... or there will be a revolt and I will get a bullet in the butt from someone 50 miles away.. But hey.....

A business man, a razor maker, and a soap maker walks into a bar.. The business man says "I would like a glass of your best coffee liqueur and I want it in the cheapest glass to cut the cost.. so the bartender threw a Kahlua in a plastic cup, and charged him 10 bucks.. The Razor Maker said.. I want some coffee, vanilla creamer and vodka (to cut the cost), but I want it in a shiny visually appealing glass because as humans we eat and drink with our eyes... So the bartender poured some coffee and vodka into a very nice glass, the looked and functioned perfectly then charged him 10 bucks.. SO.. the Soap maker ordered a shot of vodka, a spoon of instant coffee, a dash of vanilla, some sugar because its better to know exactly what the ingredients are, and asked for a nice glass with ice in it.. The bartender put all this in front of him and charged him.. You guessed it.. 10 bucks.. The soaper mixed it all together and the bartender looked at them all and asked why they would order basically the same mixture but in different ways.. The soaper looked up and said "Call it what you will, but we are different people who like the same thing and just do different things to get the same taste... AND we cut costs..

Yes yes I know that was a very bad joke.. Never said I was good at making them up.. but it will all make sense in a little bit.. Well that is if my bad joke didn't chase anyone off.

The point to this is the Tallow versus Glycerine..

Tallow is actually a general term for animal fat. Like Lard, Beef kidney tallow, and mutton fat.. In the early years soap was generally made from these because they have some great qualities once they are converted. These days many more oils and fats are used that are vegetable based, and there is even one nicknamed Veggie Tallow.. However no matter what ALL soaps are made from fats and oils and any health nuts out there would skid their skivvies if they knew what most of the popular commercial soaps are made of..... I laughed when my wife (of course this was before we were married) told me she uses dove because it is closer to hand made soap.. Not to turn anyone off, but here is a site that translates the ingredients for Dove

Ok.. Glycerine or Glycerol is ACTUALLY a by product of the soaping conversion. It has GREAT qualities on it's own, however it makes the soap softer and thus the big companies will skim this off in order to keep a hard bar of soap... By doing this they actually remove some of the moisturizing affects.. BUT the point is that you cannot make soap without glycerine forming even in small amounts.. The key is what temperature you maintain and for how long.. also in order to separate the glycerine you must use alcohol..

So in essence separating them removes what makes them great together. This is why handmade soaps generally will stand a top of the commercial ones.. because soapers usually don't remove the glycerine or they are not equipped.. It's actually a long arduous process..

Soaps live on a seesaw.. One side you have moisturizing, creamy lather and softness (softness being a quality that is bad in this set because it will dissolve faster)... on the other you have Cleansing, bubbly lather and Hardness.. (Oddly cleansing in higher qualities is bad because that means it will strip ALL oils from your skin.. nooott a good thing).. and of course hardness is sought after.. Then you have to balance the type of lather too, and in order to do that you have to mix certain oils or fats in the right percentages to achieve this.. If you want the moisture balancing quality of glycerine then you have to force the GEL state.. which is.. Yup you guessed it Glycerine..

In essence they are one in the same, mixed or matched differently.. can't make soap without glycerine forming.. and Glycerine is formed from the saponification of fats.. Tallow, vegetable, butter, lambs greasy skin oil.. Lard... ect.. it doesn't matter what kind.. Now.. I am by no means trying to push one way or another, in fact many like the (for lack of a better word) "tallow" form (truly its cold or hot process) usually because it lasts longer.. and it is easier to achieve a bubbly lather property.. and other prefer Glycerine "Actually it's better to say melt and pour" for it's moisture balancing property.. Either way it's best to have them both.. because ... drum roll please.. what one lacks.. the other one has.. and vice versa

So please no one shoot me.. heheheheh I was just reading through some threads and it caught my eye several times..

OH.. and no matter what.. no soap process cannot be done without.. LYE.. OR it's forms like Wood ash.. Even the african Black soap is made from a form of wood ash that comes from burning the plantain banana.. Actually had my mom try to tell me she knew someone who made soap with out lye.. and I said it couldn't be done... then she proceeded to tell me that wood ash isn't lye.. then I informed her that that is what LYE comes from..

Hope I didn't offend.. Just thought it was time for me to do another long post with some info..



Oh man..

Good read, Thank you.

Very nice Nay. It's informative and well the joke sucked!!! LMAO!

Hi Nervin,

Bad joke, Good Analogy
It is good to dispel the myths and share some information. I think the end point is rather than Glycerine vs. Tallow as you rightly point out post saponofication becomes glycerine, it is the where the product comes from and some people just don't go for animal products.

The qualities and characteristics of each are what set them apart for me.

Thanks for the info.
Sam

Yea I know baaad joke.. I was just trying to point out the similarities of the two.

The cool part is that the property that glycerine has. If you live in a humid area it will moisturize your skin really well.. if in a dry area it will dry it out. That's why IMHO some people have issues with melt and pour glycerine soaps.. You can always put in some additives to counteract it but when I read how it dries skin then that is usually the first thing I think of.. because that is just what glycerine does is it will balance the moisture on what ever it is on with the air they are in. That's also why the Glycerine soaps sweat too..

The best thing is to have a soap with a balance of it all. Glycerine works super great and actually helps a lot with lather too. My son is a bubble addict so I make his bubble formula, and of course adding glycerine makes a stronger thicker bubble... It helps with hydrogen bonding and strengthens the surface tension of water....

There are just so many characteristic of oils and the saponification process it's not even funny. Increase the gel stage and you can have a great soap... Tallow or veggie..

I am glad that people can translate my rabble.. it was a late night and couldn't sleep.. if anyone wants more info or has questions I will be glad to add to this. Oddly enough Soapers aren't as tight lipped about the whole process.. the only thing we kinda hold on to tight is that recipe that is their keystone... or a scent they created that everyone seems to like.

I am a firm believer in animal products and byproducts. They make everything delicious, even shaving soaps