Thread: Soapmaking lather question?

there is no olive oil in the recipe i list two posts above. would you care to look at it and maybe comment on the stearic acid or KOH content. thanks. also i'm testing next batch with/without the addition of clay. i hear mixed reports on those who have done such.

oleic acid is reported to enhance the slipperiness of a soap. maybe that's where clays are added? i've only made a few, but i see so much conflicting information, that i'm going to experiment as i go.

wp

Originally Posted by DanielClay

I've been making soap for years. Drop the olive oil content down to nothing, or %5 max and replace the remainder of the olive oil with beef tallow. Olive kills lather in anything other then a small quantity. If you want a pure vegetable soap, raise the amount of coconut and castor oil that you are using as they are the oils that make a soap bubbly.

Also when it comes to shaving soap in particular, a normal recipe will not generally be very slippery, certainly not good enough for shaving. Add around %3 of soap clay to the soap to add a very good glide to the lather.

Making a normal bar soap is easy but as soon as you go into making shaving soaps, things get complicated. Good luck.

oh lookie, i found some more information wrt stearic acid and now the "iodine content" section of all those charts makes some sense. from Wiki:

Oleic acid undergoes the reactions of carboxylic acids and alkenes. It is soluble in aqueous base to give soaps called oleates. Iodine adds across the double bond. Hydrogenation of the double bond yields the saturated derivative stearic acid.

So when i (or you or they) buy stearic acid, i'm getting a product of oleic acid-iodine bonded and hydrogenated. all with no mixing, no measuring, no mess.

any other soapers ever use stearic acid in their makings? I have no reason to doubt my source, but would like to hear from others as that is what makes a discussion.

now for a quick shave and to the shop to work on my tallow-collecting armament*.

*flintlock rifle yo.

I have been making shaving soaps for some time now and I sell them on my website, you want to drop the olive oil down to pretty much nothing. It will give you a slick feel but it will not produce a lasting lather. You want a high stearic content, so use things like tallow, shea butter, etc. You will want to add a clay to help with slickness. Keep your coconut oil lower too since coconut oil produces a bubbly lather and that is not what you are going for. Glycerin also helps in making your lather last. I hope it helps.

Sorry, I only read the firs repost haha! As the guy above says, stearin acid content should be high for what your after. Clays can be tricky, it's pretty much a matter of trial and error with them. If I were you I would do a very small batch to test your recipe, and keep making small batches and tweaking the ingredients until you get a product that you like. Also keep a note book and write down everything that you do for reference.

I have never bought steric acid for soap so I can't really comment, stearic acid content is made from the saponification process of fats, and fats like tallow as said above have a high content, which is enough in my opinion that you shouldn't have to add any extra.

Also glycerin is good, but again when a fat like tallow is saponified, up to %25 of the final product is glycerin so you shouldn't have to add any. Mass produced soaps have the glycerin removed and sold as a by product, but in your own soap the content is very high compared to a soap in a shop.

Also with your lye solution, you will want about %5 to %10 less sodium hydroxide then fats, so that there is a portion of super fats lefts over from the process that have not been saponified. A soap where %100 percent of the fats have been saponified is too harsh and only suited for laundry soap.

Originally Posted by DanielClay

Also with your lye solution, you will want about %5 to %10 less sodium hydroxide then fats, so that there is a portion of super fats lefts over from the process that have not been saponified. A soap where %100 percent of the fats have been saponified is too harsh and only suited for laundry soap.

that's basic soap-making. superfatting or "lye" discount.

not what i asked. i asked about using proportional amounts of BOTH salts (KOH, and NaOH) at the same time in ONE recipe. as per the recipe i posted. I've never seen such posted any where else, but have no reason to doubt my source.

The reason given for this by "Bob" is to improve the lather. as "NaOH makes for a poor lather".

si?

mebbe somebuddy tries that simple change? reports back here also? i'm not able to tackle that just now.

Originally Posted by DanielClay

I have never bought steric acid for soap so I can't really comment, stearic acid content is made from the saponification process of fats, and fats like tallow as said above have a high content, which is enough in my opinion that you shouldn't have to add any extra.

Also glycerin is good, but again when a fat like tallow is saponified, up to %25 of the final product is glycerin so you shouldn't have to add any. Mass produced soaps have the glycerin removed and sold as a by product, but in your own soap the content is very high compared to a soap in a shop.

No as i unnerstand it, the Stearic Acid IS a saponfiable fat. It is part of your fats whole.

I have zero interest in additional components beyond the excess fats (and some clay) left over from the superfatting.

yes, all of homemade soaps are glycerin soaps.

As I have never added stearic acid to any soaps I have made, I don't know and cant really comment on it. I'f it was me Id just make a small batch to test It with a very small amount. You would have to talk to someone who has successfully made shaving soaps and has used stearic acid. I've done a couple of batches of shaving soap, but the results left allot to desire and I didn't bother perusing It any further. All the experience I have is with bath soaps and hand soaps, lotions and moisturisers.

Originally Posted by DanielClay

As I have never ... You would have to talk to someone who has successfully made shaving soaps and has used stearic acid. I've done a couple of batches of shaving soap, but the results left allot to desire and I didn't bother

this is exactly what i'm doing. this is your chance to give it a go at improving your shaving soap-as you and too many have found, it's not just bath soap and with clay and a manly scent.

the recipe i post above at post number seven. It's in the middle of the quoted section. The man who gave me that recipe is the most learned shave-soap maker i've found (who is willing to discuss the nitty gritty in near chemistry-class detail) so that's all i have to go on. I was sharing here with other shavers who have, shall, or might tinker in making their own foam-factory; in order to spread the idea, so that more unsatisfied DIY'ers who have tried, could TRY again with some new input. That is the new input. The Beef/Venison Tallow, Stearic Acid, Castor Oil with 60/40 POTassium Hydroxide/SODium Hydroxide. I've yet to find anyone discuss "splitting" the salts WRT any soap anywhere. -see next post-

So far i get no one who'll play. the author of the recipe i leave nameless as he can't post here and i can't post where i met him...no comment, just IS. We now converse in email, when i have a new question. And no he quit trying to better the top-quality stuff, and just buys it now.

The question here is when is somebody going to say,

Yeah, i'll try that, since i've not tried it quite that way, and let's just see what does happen. That's what I'm for. OR for the equally informative, yes I ran a batch quite like that and wasn't amused.

where are you in relation to Brisbane? have a pal down there.