Thread: To strop or not to strop. (Howard Schechter) Videos

Originally Posted by FoliageFace

Very possibly true. However, i think it's hard to make the call that his stripping technique is ineffective based on 10 seconds of video. As a classical bass player and teacher, I can tell you that there are plenty of players whose technique looks less than perfect, but who sound great. What they are doing may not be the best thing for most people, but if they are getting good results, who am I to argue?

Again, I'm not saying he is right or wrong, I have nowhere near enough knowledge to make any such claim. I'm just saying he deserves the benifit of the doubt. At the very least, one should try one of his honings on a known blade and try it out before saying his ideas are BS (which is very different from saying that they are wrong, IMHO).

His stripping technique is something I definitely do not want to see

Originally Posted by FoliageFace

I'm fairly new to this whole world of SR, and so am not going to comment on the validity of the specific techniques discussed. I would like to throw in my two cents the idea of methodology:
whether or not one agrees with his conclusions, Howard should be given credit for being WAY more knowledgeable than most, and for going above and beyond in his search for empirical evidence. Does that mean he's right about everything? Almost certainly not; but dismissing his ideas or assigning ulterior motives is premature unless one has seen the same body of empirical evidence.

History is filled with examples where long-standing traditional ways of doing things have been proven less than ideal under the microscope of empirical evidence. One only need look as far as how much push back those proporting the germ theory of disease got from the medical establishment in the early part of the 20th century.

Again, I'm not advocating for Howard's way of honing razors. I'm advocating for his willingness to hold up long-standing traditions to the cold hard light of empirical evidence to determine if those traditions are accomplishing what we think they are. I have nowhere near enough knowledge to know if his conclusions are correct; but I have enough knowledge to know that when someone has done as much research as Howard clearly has, their conclusions or at least worth a serious consideration.

The underlined portion is the underlying problem methinks.

I've seen a few videos of stropping that might be dubbed appalling. One of them a barber that operates out of a high end hotel in Ireland. If his technique didn't get results, he wouldn't have that position.

Until I see what Howard has, all I can say is that his notion is interesting. Honing your blade up to 30K will make it sharp as heck. Honing on a coticule once every week or two will keep your edge going indefinitely. I've shaved right off of every hone I have, none of them are unbearable. But certainly more comfortable after linen and leather. Thus I shall continue to employ the traditional tools of the trade until such time as I can determine by feel that something isn't jiving.

I think this may be one small error in his conclusions. You can look at things under a scope all day, but the prettiest edge may not be the best shaving.

Many here shave off a coticule that is likely less than 10K and most probably looks like hell beneath a high magnification scope compared to a 12K, 16K, or 30K edge. Those same people will all tell you their coticule feels better to them than higher grit edges they've tried. I hate my coticule. But it does make one heck of a comfortable shaving edge, possibly more so than any other stone in my small collection.

As with everything involved in wet shaving and straight razors, YMMV.

We have seen all kinds of stropping methods on this site and for the folks who use them they work just fine. I've seen people hone razors and everything they do is "wrong" but they get great results. The issue to me is they have perfected this method and have become expert at it. For most of us the tried and true way works best and has been used for a very long time by professionals and non professionals.

The comparison with science is false because you're comparing a simple process with a highly complex one little understood years ago. There isn't much to analyze with stropping. It works or it doesn't and the empirical proof is immediately in front of you.

Someone once said "it's not what you do but what effect you have".

Guys with arthritic fingers may not be able to strop according to the barber manuals but still get a good shave... however... turning your wrist & flipping over the edge rather than the spine could lead to the belief that stropping more than 10 x will "roll" or damage an edge.

Originally Posted by Marshal

.....I hate my coticule. But it does make one heck of a comfortable shaving edge, possibly more so than any other stone in my small collection....

??? I don't get that.

Originally Posted by trondsi

??? I don't get that.

It's a bear to work with. Had to be burnished in spite of the fact that coticules are technically soft slurry stone. Can't be used as a slurry stone - it will upset the burnished surface. Can't be used with water or shave lather like all my other stones - the cutting material in the stone cuts too deep. Has to be used with a thin oil (50/50 mineral oil and mineral spirit) to create a nice edge. But once you DO get a good shaving edge on it, it is easily the most forgiving and comfortable edge out of all my finishing stones. Not the sharpest, it's only about an 8K stone. But shaves rather nicely.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

So I decided since Howard has close to 40 years experience with a straight razor that I would carefully consider what the man was saying. I mean what is the magic number? I was stropping probably around 70+ times after and 10-20 before a shave for a total of 80-90+ laps. Was it dull at 79 and magically sharp at 80? When was enough enough? So I lowered it to 10 after and 10 before. I have been doing this for over a week now with no noticeable degradation in the edge or shave results. If anything the edge may have gotten better! There are old barber manuals that also recommend a low number of laps on the strop. Old Howard may be on to something here.

Do what you want. Strop 100 times. Heck strop all day long, it won't bother me. Not me. Not anymore. I think I may have just found a new routine. So thanks to a couple SRP members - Howard and the OP that posted this.

I recently was passing through Howard's neck of the woods, and stopped in with him for about an hour and a half of honing, razor talk, and conversation on a range of topics, many of them having nothing to do with razors. Having spent some time with him, seeing how his approach works, and having shaved with some razors we honed while I was there, I thought it worth a revisit to this thread to share my experiences.

First off, Howard is a a great guy, a fun hang, and has a depth of knowledge about, and passion for, razors, Blades, and hones that is second to none. He was extremely generous with his time and knowledge, to the point of arguably costing him some business, as the things he taught me are going to cause me to require fewer honings. Even if One is skeptical of his methods, a conversation with him as well worth one's time.

Now down to brass tacks; what are the edges like? The short answer is that the edges are good, and indeed are shave worthy sans stropping. I will say, however, that I don't know that they were noticeably better than honings I've had done by other reputable sources; as with most things, there is more than one way up The mountain. What I do think Howard's methods bring to the table is speed and efficiency in honing; if he hadn't been stopping to explain each step to me, and letting me try my hand at some of the steps, I'm pretty sure he could've had each of my razors done in about 10 minutes. He also is extremely adept at spotting issues with The geometry of the blade, and knowing how to correct them to make the honing process easier.

Finally, to speak to the The original controversy of the thread, I think his stropping technique, well unconventional, is actually very carefully considered, and is an outgrowth of his interest in keeping the process from being overly time-consuming. While I don't want to put words in his mouth, I think he would argue that the additional pressure he puts on the edge during stropping means he can accomplish in 10 strokes what it takes others 50 or 60 to do, and that if one can accomplish a task in less time with less effort, while maintaining comparable results, why not do that? It's not to say that other methods don't work, just that they take more time than is necessary.

At any rate, I hope this post is useful to anyone trying to make sense of the last 10 pages of comments, and I encourage anyone with questions on his approach to give him a call.

Originally Posted by FoliageFace

Finally, to speak to the The original controversy of the thread, I think his stropping technique, well unconventional, is actually very carefully considered, and is an outgrowth of his interest in keeping the process from being overly time-consuming. While I don't want to put words in his mouth, I think he would argue that the additional pressure he puts on the edge during stropping means he can accomplish in 10 strokes what it takes others 50 or 60 to do, and that if one can accomplish a task in less time with less effort, while maintaining comparable results, why not do that? It's not to say that other methods don't work, just that they take more time than is necessary.

Keep in mind though, that it was his contention that anything more than 10 laps of stropping is counter-productive because it rounds over the bevel. If he is saying that his 10 laps with pressure accomplish the same as most people's 50 laps, then are his 10 laps rounding over the bevel as well?

Sorry for the silence, I have been off he forums for a bit (life got busy). I don't think Howard is saying that any single stropping is going to round the bevel, unless one really goes to extremes. Rather, I think he is saying that all stropping (at least on a hanging strop), over time, will round off the bevel. With that in mind, I think he would argue that one should strop as little as necessary, as, by his logic, it causes a blade to require honing sooner.