Thread: Toe-leading X pattern

English, That is great advice. I never stropped enough at a time. I sometimes felt a change in the draw of different razors, but it was never routine. To keep from allowing the slightest dip in the strop, I started stropping with the strop atop a smooth table in my shop. It helped. I even developed a physical stance to keep even strokes. A nice aerobic workout for us all! Alas, my Grandfather's pre-1904 Shumate has seen its days as a working strop. My wife has claimed it for her 19th Century collection of knick-knacks on shelves and in shadow boxes. If I pumiced and sanded the surface of that old leather, it would ruin the antique look and the lumps, cracks, and nicks would still be there enough for a less than proper stropping. I also use a piece of line shaft belting from an old Johns-Manville factory built in 1911. It is a fairly good leather item to use and has brought my best blade to greatness. You know, I might just have only ONE great razor among the nine I own. It is worth a try to get them all to greatness. Thanks for some kind input. I needed that. Robert

thanx english that is truly good info in that last post.
I thought we were all in a kind of mutual agreement that the barbers of the late 1800's/early 1900's were about the peak of the straight shaving art,more of a skilled craftsman and thus my "real" referance.
I can remember many little old barbers shaking from age so bad it was scarry, but they'd give you the best shave you could hope for,fast,accurate,smoooth. they all seemed to hone with fast and furrious tight circles, on a really fine grey/brown hone.
as for cardboard, the right stuff works incredible, I find phonebook covers work ok(the inside). it doesn't seem to work as well on my gottlieb hammesfahr (HARD steel), but seems to work great on most softer sheffield razors (w&b).
for what its worth all my strops are paddle strops, I find them far more predictable and thus cuts down on the variables. really just my lack of taking the time to learn to use a hanging strop properly,or maybe I'm just not good at it.
I'm no expert here,just someone who has a little expirience with edged things.
...jon

I am about finished with a restoration using toe-leading AND heel-leading honing, with the same technique for stropping. One thing I noticed is that the edge came quicker to keen that way. I had a good shave with it, but I am to make it better. Upon looking with a magnifying glass, I see a cross-hatch pattern of striations among the smooth-from-stropping areas. I shall use my balsa .5 diamond paste coated strop without leading a a blade end. The strop is wide enough for straight strokes. After that, much more leather stropping alternating the leadings until the edge has lost most of the striations. So far, I am very pleased with this method of equal leadings that some of the Members use. It really makes the difference in shave quality when using a good strop after that.

Hi,

Informative 55 pages article on sharpening: "Experiments on Knife Sharpening. John D. Verhoeven. Emeritus Professor. Department of Materials Science and Engineering. Iowa State University"

Here

Good day,

McKie

I have good results using total and complete toe/heel leading stropping and honing. One thing greatly improved-left hand shaving of left side of face. My razors were not getting good equal sharpening previously.

Check this out: J.R. Torrey Shaving Instructions recomments SHAVING Diagonally POINT TO HEEL! I was believing that NO ONE did this!...I have sinned doing just that sometimes. No Problem! Read it in the "RAZORS" FORUM a few threads past. Thanks.

This I have learned: Many folks, many strokes! If it gets the job done, just DO IT and tell about it. No intent to confuse. Robert

Good thread. I have a question as to some older barber manuals on honing (one is available on line for download, two others checked out of my library). All three said that a slight smiling blade is best (my words their words are not as kurt). They all say the once a new student is proficient with keeping a straight blade sharp then they should change to a slight smiling blade.

It is interesting to note that the books said that to get the toe to the proper configuration you mya have to lead with the toe or spend a bit more time and some pressure on the toe and heal to get the best shape.

I am a noob at best so I cannto comment as I am still shaving with a duller than it should be two razor rotation. But man am I trying to learn to get those two sharp. I can do an acceptable shave with them (as good or better than a single blade safety) and it has improved the odds on getting in grown and razor bump conditions.

So with all of my nonsense above how does one hone a razor that has to be sharpened according to the old manuals using toe leading, heel leading, and maybe even direct prependicular honing strokes?

Gentlemen,

Let's all go back to Verhoeven's fine article for a while. At page7 (figure9) let's look at the SEM pictures of a typical shaveready straight razor.

Originally Posted by McKie

Informative 55 pages article on sharpening: "Experiments on Knife Sharpening. John D. Verhoeven. Emeritus Professor. Department of Materials Science and Engineering. Iowa State University"
Here

These picture are made with a scanning electron microscope. A technology that has vastly more resolution that any optical microscope. These pictures are beyond any suspicion.
Now... where are the striations, or serrations, or theeth, whatever we wish to call them?

Remember that that a human hair has (on avarage) a diameter of about 70 micron. It would fill more than half the surface of one of the two most right pictures.

There's no such thing as teeth on a razor. They might be present at an early honing stage while working on a coarse hone. And that might explain why the hanging hair test performs so well at 1K honing level, but we don't shave with such a toothy edge, cause we don't want to saw the upper layer of our skin away.
By the time the razor is honed fine enough to strop, it is not about creating teeth. It's about aligning the microscopically very thin part of the bevel tip that's still erratic. I'm talking about an area along the edge with a width of .5 micron. You can see it on the left picture. There's an extremely small bur there, it shows up as silver lining. Stropping helps the formation of that micro-bur and realigns it before the shave. I believe the realigning goes quick, but the drawing out of the bur a bit further, takes more laps.
I also think that the original poster experienced an improvement, because with toe-leading strokes, one has to push the razor more than to pull it. Which leads to a bit more pressure. I believe that's why he also reported "more drag". And drag, is what we need to develop the micro-bur. Not too much, but enough.

The X-stroke is not about serrations. It's about continuously shifting the points of contact that the blade makes with the hones surface. This evens out all small inconsistencies between the blade's geometry and the hone's surface, and prevents uneven results. With a perfect straight and unwarped blade on a perfectly flat hone, there's no need to do X-strokes. But most blades aren't perfect, and the more we hone them, the less perfect they become.

Best regards,
Bart.

+1 on Bart's post.

Btw, I hone with the heel leading a bit, simply because it is much easier to keep the razor stable on the hone. That is just my preference.
And I shave with the toe leading (as shown in the old barber manuals), sometimes making scything motions as well.

I have tried different things, but to me it didn't really make any difference, so I just do what is most comfortable to me.

And let's refrain from calling each other idiots. Just because something works for you does not mean you can speak with absolute authority. Different strokes for different people, and to each his (her) own.
Even if you disagree, don't go about insulting other people.

Originally Posted by English

My point is that anybody who hones in the way you describe is an idiot.

Calling people an idiot on SRP is not exactly smart either. Time to calm down.

I mentioned teeth earlier, but I know there are no teeth.

Bart, in your drawings on the effects of the bbw garnets it looks like you have drawn teeth- but you know there are no teeth!

Why do we keep thinking there are teeth? Is it because it feels like teeth grabbing the hair