Thread: Toe-leading X pattern

Hi,

Informative 55 pages article on sharpening: "Experiments on Knife Sharpening. John D. Verhoeven. Emeritus Professor. Department of Materials Science and Engineering. Iowa State University"

Here

Good day,

McKie

I have good results using total and complete toe/heel leading stropping and honing. One thing greatly improved-left hand shaving of left side of face. My razors were not getting good equal sharpening previously.

Check this out: J.R. Torrey Shaving Instructions recomments SHAVING Diagonally POINT TO HEEL! I was believing that NO ONE did this!...I have sinned doing just that sometimes. No Problem! Read it in the "RAZORS" FORUM a few threads past. Thanks.

This I have learned: Many folks, many strokes! If it gets the job done, just DO IT and tell about it. No intent to confuse. Robert

Good thread. I have a question as to some older barber manuals on honing (one is available on line for download, two others checked out of my library). All three said that a slight smiling blade is best (my words their words are not as kurt). They all say the once a new student is proficient with keeping a straight blade sharp then they should change to a slight smiling blade.

It is interesting to note that the books said that to get the toe to the proper configuration you mya have to lead with the toe or spend a bit more time and some pressure on the toe and heal to get the best shape.

I am a noob at best so I cannto comment as I am still shaving with a duller than it should be two razor rotation. But man am I trying to learn to get those two sharp. I can do an acceptable shave with them (as good or better than a single blade safety) and it has improved the odds on getting in grown and razor bump conditions.

So with all of my nonsense above how does one hone a razor that has to be sharpened according to the old manuals using toe leading, heel leading, and maybe even direct prependicular honing strokes?

Originally Posted by Bart

Maybe, just maybe, they show why a hones with round particles (garnets) don't create wire edges. What else is a wire edge, than an edge with teeth?

Let's commission that microscope again then to show us what a wire edge looks like!

Originally Posted by timberrr59

Check this out: J.R. Torrey Shaving Instructions recomments SHAVING Diagonally POINT TO HEEL! I was believing that NO ONE did this!

Several months ago when I first began honing (trying to hone), I read a short instruction sheet (maybe that one?) which described both honing with leading toe, stropping with leading toe, and shaving with leading heel

Gentlemen,

Let's all go back to Verhoeven's fine article for a while. At page7 (figure9) let's look at the SEM pictures of a typical shaveready straight razor.

Originally Posted by McKie

Informative 55 pages article on sharpening: "Experiments on Knife Sharpening. John D. Verhoeven. Emeritus Professor. Department of Materials Science and Engineering. Iowa State University"
Here

These picture are made with a scanning electron microscope. A technology that has vastly more resolution that any optical microscope. These pictures are beyond any suspicion.
Now... where are the striations, or serrations, or theeth, whatever we wish to call them?

Remember that that a human hair has (on avarage) a diameter of about 70 micron. It would fill more than half the surface of one of the two most right pictures.

There's no such thing as teeth on a razor. They might be present at an early honing stage while working on a coarse hone. And that might explain why the hanging hair test performs so well at 1K honing level, but we don't shave with such a toothy edge, cause we don't want to saw the upper layer of our skin away.
By the time the razor is honed fine enough to strop, it is not about creating teeth. It's about aligning the microscopically very thin part of the bevel tip that's still erratic. I'm talking about an area along the edge with a width of .5 micron. You can see it on the left picture. There's an extremely small bur there, it shows up as silver lining. Stropping helps the formation of that micro-bur and realigns it before the shave. I believe the realigning goes quick, but the drawing out of the bur a bit further, takes more laps.
I also think that the original poster experienced an improvement, because with toe-leading strokes, one has to push the razor more than to pull it. Which leads to a bit more pressure. I believe that's why he also reported "more drag". And drag, is what we need to develop the micro-bur. Not too much, but enough.

The X-stroke is not about serrations. It's about continuously shifting the points of contact that the blade makes with the hones surface. This evens out all small inconsistencies between the blade's geometry and the hone's surface, and prevents uneven results. With a perfect straight and unwarped blade on a perfectly flat hone, there's no need to do X-strokes. But most blades aren't perfect, and the more we hone them, the less perfect they become.

Best regards,
Bart.

+1 on Bart's post.

Btw, I hone with the heel leading a bit, simply because it is much easier to keep the razor stable on the hone. That is just my preference.
And I shave with the toe leading (as shown in the old barber manuals), sometimes making scything motions as well.

I have tried different things, but to me it didn't really make any difference, so I just do what is most comfortable to me.

And let's refrain from calling each other idiots. Just because something works for you does not mean you can speak with absolute authority. Different strokes for different people, and to each his (her) own.
Even if you disagree, don't go about insulting other people.