Thread: Does stropping keep the razor sharp?

Q "It did remove material right?"
A "No, it removed rust"

Conclusion: Rust is not material
It is metaphysical and should be treated as such. This is why Glen's magic mushrooms work so well



Xman, thanks for the drawing. It appears that sometimes smoothing and sharpening are one and the same, at least to the untrained eye. keep the ideas coming, it's interesting!

Well, let's define the terms shall we? Since you differentiated between 'smoothing the edge' and sharpening we must take the latter to mean removal of metal to make the bevel sharper and the prior to be simply reshaping the bevel to make it sharper. In order not to confuse the two processes I indicated that 'material' being removed referred to the steel and not any rust which may be removed. It should be noted that the article indicates that a blade coated in oil will not rust and then no material of any kind will be removed by stropping.

X

I wonder how many of the metal "fibers" that are "bent back" are straightened and how many are broken off. To be really picky, a strop is flexible and with an edge sharp/thin enough it would alway end up bowing the edge up from the last stroke on the strop. Assumably, each time you flipped the razor over it would bow the edge the other way. That's why it's so important to keep your razor flat; but on a soft surface I'd expect some of this to be unavoidable. Anybody notice that their razor seems to shave slightly better on one side compared to the other?

I say stropping DOES keep the razor sharp, via Utopian's semantic argument. I initially voted no, but he swayed me.

No stroppey, no good shavey.

Originally Posted by Quick

I wonder how many of the metal "fibers" that are "bent back" are straightened and how many are broken off. To be really picky, a strop is flexible and with an edge sharp/thin enough it would alway end up bowing the edge up from the last stroke on the strop. Assumably, each time you flipped the razor over it would bow the edge the other way. That's why it's so important to keep your razor flat; but on a soft surface I'd expect some of this to be unavoidable. Anybody notice that their razor seems to shave slightly better on one side compared to the other?

I used to get that a LOT... then I got better at honing.

I wonder the same thing though, about the broken vs bent fibers. Once steel hits it's fatigue point it will break off, BUT if it hasn't yet, it will just bend back.

I don't know about the bowing effect though, something seems a bit wrong about that... I just can't put my finger on it yet.

After reading threads back all the way to 2005...
After collecting a serious amount of empirical data...
After reading the popular mechanics articles...
After much contemplation...

I've drawn an inevitable conclusion...

Stropping strops the edge.



I think during honing, the main force is abrasion, together with a bit of plastic shaping.
During stropping the main force is plastic shaping, together with some abrasion.

After honing, or after a shave, the very tip of the edge, which is less than a micron wide, is left erratic. I think stropping creates a convex shaped sub-micron bevel on there. An arch shaped micro-burr, if you like. It's easily disturbed again, hence the need to realign it every shave. Slowly, with every shave, the pinnacle of the very edge deteriorates and gets wider. The sub-micron arch formed by the strop becomes obtuser. It's time for a touch-up.

If a leather strop really was abrasive, it would undo the damage of a shave, and a razor could be kept going forever with just a good stropping session before each shave. We all know that's not the case. That's why I think stropping just conditions the erratic part of the very edge.

with speculative regards,

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

That's why I think stropping just conditions the erratic part of the very edge.

Isn't that sharpening? If it improves the razor's ability to cleanly slice through the next hair, I call it sharpening! Does sharpening necessarily involve abrasion?

Originally Posted by Bart

If a leather strop really was abrasive, it would undo the damage of a shave, and a razor could be kept going forever with just a good stropping session before each shave. We all know that's not the case. That's why I think stropping just conditions the erratic part of the very edge.

with speculative regards,

Bart.

This has been my point all along. The act of shaving does more damage to the edge than the strop can take care of. Again, it delays honing not elimate it so the strop cannot sharpen my blade to where I want it.

bj

Originally Posted by Bruce

hogla,

I think the evidence is incontrovertible and the photomicrographs prove it, incontrovertibly. If the strop can remove rust, it is abrasive and an abrasive is used to sharpen things; therefore, post hoc ergo propter hoc, a strop does sharpen a razor.

Cogito ergo sum and leather is as leather does, and all the rest of those neat quotes... If a strop can roll an edge, by golly it can unroll an edge

Removing rust and cutting steel are two very different things. rust is essentially a caked powder while steels is aligned molecules bonded together very strongly. Thats like saying that because a knife can cut butter you can use it to slice leather since they are both made from cows.

Originally Posted by xman

... In order not to confuse the two processes I indicated that 'material' being removed referred to the steel and not any rust which may be removed. It should be noted that the article indicates that a blade coated in oil will not rust and then no material of any kind will be removed by stropping.

Technically rust is iron oxide. Steel is iron carbide. So where a chemical reaction has replaced the iron-carbon carbon portion with oxygen you now have iron-oxide which is no longer steel. If you're not removing steel, you are not sharpening but cleaning smut away from the steel surface, or polishing which could also be an abrasive process.

Hey, it's as good a circular illogical argument as have happened before.

Someone left out the idea that a bad stropping could worsen the edge.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

It is metaphysical and should be treated as such. This is why Glen's magic mushrooms work so well

Lee:
I made it quite clear in the thread that I disclosed the secret of the "Magic Idaho Mushrooms" that these were part of the overall "Honing" process, and as such should not be included in this stropping only thread...