Thread: Annoying video about kitchen knives that may actually be helpful

Originally Posted by Rajagra

And Alton is "stropping" the wrong way, as if he is honing.

Alton did say "It's a honing steel and not a sharpening steel"... haha

From a cooking point of view the video was a bit interesting albeit a blatant advertisment. But what are you talking about in re: stropping? If it is in ref to the use of the steel, his comments are exactly correct. If one is trying to warp his statements into a straight, welllll that's not correct IMO.

He NEVER MENTIONS STROPPING, and the sharpening methods for a kitchen blade have no real comparison to a straight razor. I would NEVER strop a kitchen knive, I would never want that kind of edge for chopping onions or carrots or whatever. One onion would destroy the edge.

I am an amateur chef. In the true sense of the word I enjoy cooking although I am not a paid professional. I've occassionaly (sorry I can never spell that word) seen people here, especially the new ones, mistake sharpening and honing of kitchen ware with what shaving gear needs. The two are completly different in detail although the principles are the same.

I don't pass here often anymore, my RADs and other AD's have been satisified. But from time to time I do check in and comment if I get my interest piqued.

Best wishes to all,

Rich

Originally Posted by Quick

Alton did say "It's a honing steel and not a sharpening steel"... haha

Originally Posted by cabo_sailor

But what are you talking about in re: stropping? If it is in ref to the use of the steel, his comments are exactly correct. If one is trying to warp his statements into a straight, welllll that's not correct IMO.

He NEVER MENTIONS STROPPING, and the sharpening methods for a kitchen blade have no real comparison to a straight razor.

Guys, you didn't pay attention to what Alton Brown said, and note that I put the word "stropping" in quotes for a reason, because I know people from different fields use different terminologies.

This is what Alton says in the video:

Originally Posted by Alton Brown

Now, repeat after me, this is not a sharpening steel. This is a honing steel.
What? OK good. So what exactly is the difference...
With regular use even a very fine edge can kind of bend over a little bit...
The point of the steel is to kind of give it a tune up, just coax the edge gently back into place.

So he wasn't using the abrasive type of steel. He was using the ridged kind, the kind that is supposed to straighten the blade edge without abrading material.

I call that a "stropping" action, irrespective of what tool (leather or steel) is being used to achieve that effect. I hope I make myself clear now.

Now explain to me: if you are trying to straighten the blade edge, why the hell would you slide the knife blade-first on to the steel? That seems retarded to me. I would love an explanation!

EDIT> Some good videos on using a steel here
Sharpening A Knife With A Steel (Food & Drink: Cooking Tips & Techniques)
Choosing A Steel For Sharpening A Knife (Food & Drink: Cooking Tips & Techniques)
But no answer to my question.

Every instruction I've ever been given or read said you should steel in the direction that Alton used.

Gordon is the first I've ever seen do it in the other direction.

Jordan

My video keeps locking up at the cake section.

Originally Posted by Rajagra

Guys, you didn't pay attention to what Alton Brown said, and note that I put the word "stropping" in quotes for a reason, because I know people from different fields use different terminologies.

This is what Alton says in the video:

So he wasn't using the abrasive type of steel. He was using the ridged kind, the kind that is supposed to straighten the blade edge without abrading material.

I call that a "stropping" action, irrespective of what tool (leather or steel) is being used to achieve that effect. I hope I make myself clear now.

Now explain to me: if you are trying to straighten the blade edge, why the hell would you slide the knife blade-first on to the steel? That seems retarded to me. I would love an explanation!

EDIT> Some good videos on using a steel here
Sharpening A Knife With A Steel (Food & Drink: Cooking Tips & Techniques)
Choosing A Steel For Sharpening A Knife (Food & Drink: Cooking Tips & Techniques)
But no answer to my question.

Most sources, unlike Ramsey, promote steeling with a leading edge.
Verhoeven's famous paper, often cited here on the forums, explains that steeling a knife, completely folds over the bur (the result of regular knife honing) and plasters it flat against one side of the edge. He even has SEM-pictures to illustrate it. It requires only 2 or 3 light passes, as doing more is detrimental to the edge.
Here's a link to Verhoeven's paper: http://mse.iastate.edu/fileadmin/www...nifeShExps.pdf The information about steeling is on pages 12 and following.

This applies only to smooth steels. There's also a kind of abrassive "steel", that in fact acts more as a hone, and should be treated as such.
One of the problems I had to overcome with my kitchen knifes, is that I was 'oversteeling" them, which required me to hone them way too often. Figuring out that it really doesn't take much, greatly improved the longevity of my kitchen knife edges.

Stropping is not the same as steeling, imo.
Stropping gives an edge an edge (no typo here). But that second edge (or fin) doesn't last long (it wrinkles up from the cutting action), hence the need to restrop frequently. At my work, I have to cut newspaper and cardboard frequently. I use an old chef's knife for that. Whenever I find the knife a bit too dull, without time for a honing job, I'll strop it a bit on my jeans. That always gives a very distinct improvement, albeit it wears off quickly. I am sure, at that point, the knife is way past the point where steeling would offer anything beneficial. Steeling only works for as long as a knife is still near original keenness. Stropping seems to add something to an edge, regardless the condition.

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

Most sources, unlike Ramsey, promote steeling with a leading edge.
Verhoeven's famous paper, often cited here on the forums, explains that steeling a knife, completely folds over the bur (the result of regular knife honing) and plasters it flat against one side of the edge. He even has SEM-pictures to illustrate it. It requires only 2 or 3 light passes, as doing more is detrimental to the edge.
Here's a link to Verhoeven's paper: http://mse.iastate.edu/fileadmin/www...nifeShExps.pdf The information about steeling is on pages 12 and following.

This applies only to smooth steels. There's also a kind of abrassive "steel", that in fact acts more as a hone, and should be treated as such.
One of the problems I had to overcome with my kitchen knifes, is that I was 'oversteeling" them, which required me to hone them way too often. Figuring out that it really doesn't take much, greatly improved the longevity of my kitchen knife edges.

Stropping is not the same as steeling, imo.
Stropping gives an edge an edge (no typo here). But that second edge (or fin) doesn't last long (it wrinkles up from the cutting action), hence the need to restrop frequently. At my work, I have to cut newspaper and cardboard frequently. I use an old chef's knife for that. Whenever I find the knife a bit too dull, without time for a honing job, I'll strop it a bit on my jeans. That always gives a very distinct improvement, albeit it wears off quickly. I am sure, at that point, the knife is way past the point where steeling would offer anything beneficial. Steeling only works for as long as a knife is still near original keenness. Stropping seems to add something to an edge, regardless the condition.

Bart.

Well, my take on this is that a "fin" or very thin flexible edge is prety worthless at chopping onions, as it will quickly break off when contacting the chopping block.



In kitchen knives, apparently, this "fin" is folded back and plastered against the main edge, and thus you use the honing steel edge first. And yes, that has little to do with razors, or stropping.

With a razor, we actually can make use of the "fin" delicate edge, as all we are cutting are whiskers (and the occasional cheek!), and so we use a leather strop to coax this edge back out into alignment, maintaining it's thin, delicate nature.

However, my original intent was that the vid shows a pretty good visual depiction of edge "wavy" deflection that occurs with use.

The angle they use to show that wavy edge (looking down along the edge) is just about impossible to achieve with an optical scope, so I thought it was a useful visualization tool, that's all.