Thread: The Grand Experiment

well guys I guess we have a difference of opinion as to what the total number of strokes should be used. Luckily though I honed up the razors this weekend and they seemed to equally pass all tests as we all know shaving is the real test and though #39 shaved like a dream #38 did not so I had to rehone 38 to bring it up to par and equal 39 so the experiment actually will start tomorrow.

So the question is do I strop the before only razor (#39) 60 times to equal the 30 before and 30 after on #38?. My feeling is no that 39 should get 30 passes. Though Joe makes a point that all strokes should be equal I think that the razor being stropped before and after is getting 30 before and the same after and because the shave ocurrs between the stropping that becomes an equalizer in the equation if you follow me.

If I stropped #39 60 times it would be getting more before the shave than 38 which gets 30. yes it gets 30 more after shaving but does that equal the 60 done all at once before shaving?

Unless we have some statistics and probability genius here or someone can convince me otherwise it will be 30 on #39 the before only razor.

Now that I have been thinking about this some more it comes to mind that is the becoming a statistics problem and if that is the case we can discuss variables here. So is the total number of strokes on the strop mutually exclusive of the before and after stropping issue. Are they two separate events or are they one and the same?

Can it be argued that in the before and after stropper it is assumed it will get more stopping than the other. That is the natural course of everyday use. If you increase the before only razor to 60 are you than changing the parameters of the experiment. Is this then an unnatural event in the razor use world.

This is sure getting complicated!

Based on my second grade education, here is what I deduce. One gets 30 strops pre-shave. The other 30 before and after. My conclusion comes from this...real world, if you are stropping 30 times and then shaving, and not stropping again, that is the condition your razor will be in. If I understand properly, the question is what does stropping afterward do? By stropping after the shave, you have changed what the condition of your razor will be in. Was not the original question do you strop before AND after?

Pass the Advil!

Randy

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

well guys I guess we have a difference of opinion as to what the total number of strokes should be used. Luckily though I honed up the razors this weekend and they seemed to equally pass all tests as we all know shaving is the real test and though #39 shaved like a dream #38 did not so I had to rehone 38 to bring it up to par and equal 39 so the experiment actually will start tomorrow.

So the question is do I strop the before only razor (#39) 60 times to equal the 30 before and 30 after on #38?. My feeling is no that 39 should get 30 passes. Though Joe makes a point that all strokes should be equal I think that the razor being stropped before and after is getting 30 before and the same after and because the shave ocurrs between the stropping that becomes an equalizer in the equation if you follow me.

If I stropped #39 60 times it would be getting more before the shave than 38 which gets 30. yes it gets 30 more after shaving but does that equal the 60 done all at once before shaving?

Unless we have some statistics and probability genius here or someone can convince me otherwise it will be 30 on #39 the before only razor.

It's begining to sound like for your results to be convincing you may need three razors to prove that 30 or 60 before makes nor difference. Unless the two show a hugh difference you'll always have the cloud.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Now that I have been thinking about this some more it comes to mind that is the becoming a statistics problem and if that is the case we can discuss variables here. So is the total number of strokes on the strop mutually exclusive of the before and after stropping issue. Are they two separate events or are they one and the same?

Can it be argued that in the before and after stropper it is assumed it will get more stopping than the other. That is the natural course of everyday use. If you increase the before only razor to 60 are you than changing the parameters of the experiment. Is this then an unnatural event in the razor use world.

This is sure getting complicated!

It's not a statistics problem. It's simple logic. If you do the uneven stropping you'll only be able to prove that stropping after and stropping twice as much has a different effect than just stropping before. The razor is a physical object. You're kidding yourself if you think stropping twice as much will have no effect regardless of when it's done.

Originally Posted by rtaylor61

Based on my second grade education, here is what I deduce. One gets 30 strops pre-shave. The other 30 before and after. My conclusion comes from this...real world, if you are stropping 30 times and then shaving, and not stropping again, that is the condition your razor will be in. If I understand properly, the question is what does stropping afterward do? By stropping after the shave, you have changed what the condition of your razor will be in. Was not the original question do you strop before AND after?

Pass the Advil!

Randy

When you're all done you'll have to take the position that stropping a razor 1000 times vs. 2000 times makes no difference!!!

Need to chime in here. I freely admit that my experience with straights is horribly lacking compared to present company; however, being a research scientist, I do have some experience with experimental design. Joe is correct. Stropping before and after leaves the experiment completely confounded with regard to the causal agent of the effect (i.e. is it the extra stropping, or the time that the stropping was done that is causing the difference). On the other hand, if you don't care which of the two factors is most affecting the razor, than it does not matter that the experiment has confounding. This may create an additional problem, if the effects are equal and opposite, you will find no difference even though each of the two variables is affecting the razor. For instance, if the extra stropping is good, and stropping following a shave is bad, you may find no cumulative effect.
If you want to get at causality, you actually need to do much more than Joe suggests, because you also have a time element involved. With each variable added, you need to double the number of razors to address the issue. More trouble still--you are assuming that there is no experimental error. Without replication, you really cannot be assured that there is not variability among razors, shaving technique, stropping, initial hone, etc...
God I love my job ;-)
Ed

Originally Posted by ForestryProf

Need to chime in here. I freely admit that my experience with straights is horribly lacking compared to present company; however, being a research scientist, I do have some experience with experimental design. Joe is correct. Stropping before and after leaves the experiment completely confounded with regard to the causal agent of the effect (i.e. is it the extra stropping, or the time that the stropping was done that is causing the difference). On the other hand, if you don't care which of the two factors is most affecting the razor, than it does not matter that the experiment has confounding. This may create an additional problem, if the effects are equal and opposite, you will find no difference even though each of the two variables is affecting the razor. For instance, if the extra stropping is good, and stropping following a shave is bad, you may find no cumulative effect.
If you want to get at causality, you actually need to do much more than Joe suggests, because you also have a time element involved. With each variable added, you need to double the number of razors to address the issue. More trouble still--you are assuming that there is no experimental error. Without replication, you really cannot be assured that there is not variability among razors, shaving technique, stropping, initial hone, etc...
God I love my job ;-)
Ed

This certainly seems to be a definitive opinion. However, I think you could cover the bases by using three razors: One stropped 60 before, one stropped 30 before and one stropped 30 before and 30 after. The first two razors will show you the effect (if any) of the number of round trips and the third will show the effect of stropping after.

Leaving out the first razor, you won't know whether the difference is due to stropping after or the additional stropping.

Well, to resolve this issue once and for all I will add a third razor to the experiment. This razor will be stropped before shaving only at 60 strokes. Now I don't have a third SRP razor but I do have a TI of the same size and I believe it is essentially the same blade as the SRP razor. How's that? Is everybody happy now?

a) Since what the main difference between shavers is that some strop extra after the shave while others don't and we're trying to determine the difference between those two guys first, that should not be compromised on the first trip.

b) Since there is some heat as to whether this actually matters without "equal" stropping, it might be a good idea to try and mollify that dragon.

c) Since the sample size IS TOO SMALL we're likely to have contestable results out of the first gate and need to explore more in the future.

Let's just run it once with the three razors and see what our results are.
Further hypotheses may follow.

X

PS Is there any of that Advil left?