Thread: Pasted strop substarte effect

The density fo the substrate you use to put the abrasive on will have an effect on how aggressively the particulate will be.

On a harder surface, the "grit" will sit on top, and be much more aggressive. One a softer surface, the "grit" can sink into the surface, and be therefore less aggressive, and also have some "give" to it when pressure is applied.

That is why I believe the felt is getting such good press lately when coupled with diamond sprays.

I have also experienced good things when using a sheet of paper under my lapping films for the very same reasons. As an example, write ona single sheet of paper, and you can feel every little bump as the pen moves along the desktop. now put a sheet of paper under there, and it feels much smoother, as the paper acts as a shock absorber smoothing out the ride.

Yeah !!!! I agree

I honestly believe that this is why so many have given the .25 Diamond spray a bad rep. because they were told "try it on balsa"

Simple is as simple does... Balsa = harsh, Leather = less harsh, Felt = even less harsh...

This is interesting, but I am not sure I totally agree with your findings completely. I have all three balsa, leather and felt. I also have both crox and diamond spray, .5 and .25.

I have been doing my own tests with these, on different subtrates, and here is what I personally see.

Balsa is a rather medium to soft surface with nice poures that can be filled with either medium, crox or ds. Once filled, and the surface is wiped clean, the edge of the blade can be exposed very nicely to the underlying poures filled with the medium and the upper grain acts as a cushion to limit the blades exposure to it. The problem, I think, some have with using balsa seems to be applying to much pressure and to many strokes. The feedback is so soft that it seems reasonable to apply more pressure, but this over hones the edge. When I use balsa and crox, I only need 3 to 6 very light laps to achieve what I am looking for. Until I figured this out, I was routinely dulling my edges with this.

Leather is an interesting subtrate and I prefer to use a medium on this while it is fastened to a hard surface. I found that the best combination for my use was to attach the leather upside down, and apply the medium to the rough side. Again, roughness acts just like the balsa, its life is extended with proper use.

Felt has a totally different feeling to any of the other subtrates. It is a semi ridged construction with a medium to hard surface. I have used mine with ds only and found it to be quite agressive. Again, very, very light strokes and very few, like 3 and no more than 6, produce an edge that under the microscope looks like it has been sandblasted. The ds seems to make my razors edges seem more harsh, and I get this same feedback from experiments I have sent to people I have honed for. On the other hand, I have also heard some say thery really like the ds. I just don't use it much anymore.

Perhaps the use of these tools is sort of like the use of different stones. Each individual has their own opinion, coupled with their individual skill of using them and this can make any one, or all of them their favorite. I have my own preferences which works very well for me.

Enjoy!

Ray

I've been experimenting with diamond pastes for about a month now of which I'm updating as new findings I think are worth noting come up. The thread is here:

"12 Different particles sized diamond pastes!"

This experiment is to work with backhoning from bevel set to final polish.

I've tried a handful of substrates and posted in this thread because I've found the same to be true. The hardest of substrates I've used, glass and corian result in the coarser diamond pastes (350 - 500 grit range on up to 2k) to be so aggressive that they, for lack of a better word, shred razor edges. This is with backhoning. Steel fingers or fringe on the edge like I've never seen. Balsa, Basswood, leather and newspaper have been worlds better.

I don't consider balsa to be a hard surface; in fact, with some of the grits of diamond paste applied to the balsa, the diamonds seem to embed and sink into the balsa to such a degree that the cutting ability of the pasted balsa is lackluster; I'm referring to the coarser grits which I want to cut in a timely manner.

Chris L

I have been playing with the different pastes, powders, bars, sprays and liquid media available for a few years now and on thousands of razors.

I have come to find that the thinner you put on what ever you are using, the better results you have.

The chromium oxide seems to be very consistent in results on balsa, leathers, webbed fabrics (including linen and cotton) and the felt. I find that 10 strokes is usually the max to get the desired smooth in the shave. The yellowstone also works well with the webbed fabric and again, only a few strokes are required.

I do agree with Seraphim on the reason the felt seems to work so well with the diamond media. It has proven very effective with all the grit applications I have tried to date. The .25 is kind of an animal unto itself as it just seems to work better on some razors than others. When it does work, it really works. The diamond stuff on leather has always been a little coarser and I would not say this coarseness is always uncomfortable. Just a different feeling. I am still honing around 30 razors every day and still using the pastes on the majority unless experimenting or testing other stones, films or processes.

What is really different for me is that you can dial in some of the stones to produce a really great and smooth shave and yet others just like that little extra with the pastes or sprays.

The reliability and consistency of the results with these media has really kept me using them more than anything over the years.

There are many variations and the more you hone, the more you see what works for various razors and grinds. I find it amazing sometimes that a razor will be so close and then just 10 strokes on something 2 micron followed by 10 on something .5 micron just makes it hit so perfect.

I am not surprised by Ray's findings either as 5-10 strokes is usually very appropriate at this stage of the final polishing unless you are just using newspaper, which could take hundreds of strokes.

Such a fun sport.

The interesting thing about working with newsprint is that it can become problematic. I worked for the Akron Beacon Journal (knight-Ridder) newspapper for 22 years so I have some knowledge in this issue.
Up until about 12 years ago, most newspapers used kerosene based ink. The paper was used by many to clean windows, and the combination of kerosene and lampblack would have a polishing effect, and that's why windows would sparkle.
In the late 1980's newspapers started printing the front sections of their papers with water based inks to stop the ink from rubbing off on clothing and to present each section in color.

So depending on weather you are using the water based ink page ors the kerosene based ink pages or even new or recycled newsprint, the results could be different each time.

Just something to think about.

Enjoy!

Ray

I just got this information after I posted. Notice what the ink is made of. Maybe this answeres why it takes a lot of strokes....Smile..

Ray

Thursday, October 29, 2009

BJ endures jokes about "yellow journalism"


The Beacon Journal, through no fault of its own, was the butt of jokes about yellow journalism on Wednesday. Ink being delivred to the newspper spilled onto East Exchange Street. There was a temporary closing of streets during the cleanup. The driver of the truck about to make an ink delivery told newspaper officials that he was about to make a left turn onto S. High Street about midnight when he suddently had to brake to avoid a crash. The momentum forced a 250-gallon container of yellow ink to fall from the turck and spill on to the street. Akron fire and hazardous material crews blocked off portions of E. Exchange until about 6:30 a.m. BJ production manager Vicki Kuhns said the ink is soy based and not hazardous.

The incident was dutifully covered in a news brief -- and widely on facebook. A story we could not resist.

WOW Ray,

And all this time I was told that paper was the "fish wrapper" and figured it was the oils...........

Lynn

Originally Posted by rayman

I just got this information after I posted. Notice what the ink is made of. Maybe this answeres why it takes a lot of strokes....Smile..

Ray

Thursday, October 29, 2009

BJ endures jokes about "yellow journalism"


The Beacon Journal, through no fault of its own, was the butt of jokes about yellow journalism on Wednesday. Ink being delivred to the newspper spilled onto East Exchange Street. There was a temporary closing of streets during the cleanup. The driver of the truck about to make an ink delivery told newspaper officials that he was about to make a left turn onto S. High Street about midnight when he suddently had to brake to avoid a crash. The momentum forced a 250-gallon container of yellow ink to fall from the turck and spill on to the street. Akron fire and hazardous material crews blocked off portions of E. Exchange until about 6:30 a.m. BJ production manager Vicki Kuhns said the ink is soy based and not hazardous.

The incident was dutifully covered in a news brief -- and widely on facebook. A story we could not resist.

Originally Posted by rayman

In the late 1980's newspapers started printing the front sections of their papers with water based inks to stop the ink from rubbing off on clothing and to present each section in color.

I get most consistent results with the classifieds section.

How about the Wall Street Journal? That's an old school B&W paper. Soy or carbon? Anybody know?