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Thread: Basic Sharpening Theory vs. Stropping

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    Default Basic Sharpening Theory vs. Stropping

    Alright folks, I don't even know how to search this to see if has been asked. I thought I knew a thing or two about sharpening basic blades (knives) and realize I don't, after getting a razor. I have always subscribed to the thought that you should sharpen into the blade to avoid a wire edge, but stropping seems to go against that even though one is still 'sharpening' at a lesser degree. Can anyone offer some sage advice on why stropping should not be done into the blade or if you were careful enough it could be more effective? Is the wire edge still present although at a lesser degree on a 'finished' blade? (the thread with the microscope images appear to show there is no wire edge).

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    May your bone always be well buried MickR's Avatar
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    You strop into the strop and soon you will have no more strop, and a blunt, and round edged razor. Stropping is mainly to final polish and line up the 'teeth' of the razors edge. If you sharpen a knife to it's final edge you should be doing the same action with it on leather as well. Albeit, at not so steep an angle.


    Mick

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    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    The straight razor is a bit different from every other thing you have learned to sharpen, it can be rather disconcerting to many Knife & Tool guys...

    There should be NO wire edge ever formed when sharpening a SR, you do not raise a burr then take it off...

    I finally came up with a saying some time back about the difference with SR's

    The difference with sharpening a Straight Razor from every other type of tool, is your face, getting things sharp is rather easy, but getting things sharp and smooth enough to drag across your face is a bit of a challenge...

    Now Stropping is done after all this to align/tweak/burnish the edge into an even smoother/sharper condition, and is always done spine leading, with the minimum amount of pressure necessary to keep the blade flat and even as it moves across the strop...
    Last edited by gssixgun; 07-11-2010 at 04:18 PM.

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    As far as stropping goes, I don't think I want to mess around with a system that has been around for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. If it ain't broke.......
    Dachsmith likes this.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth niftyshaving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippy View Post
    Alright folks, I don't even know how to search this to see if has been asked. I thought I knew a thing or two about sharpening basic blades (knives) and realize I don't, after getting a razor. I have always subscribed to the thought that you should sharpen into the blade to avoid a wire edge, but stropping seems to go against that even though one is still 'sharpening' at a lesser degree. Can anyone offer some sage advice on why stropping should not be done into the blade or if you were careful enough it could be more effective? Is the wire edge still present although at a lesser degree on a 'finished' blade? (the thread with the microscope images appear to show there is no wire edge).
    Two topics -- wire edge/ burr and stropping.

    A wire edge is simply too fragile and uneven to shave with.
    A micro burr/ wire edge will cut skin and collapse when
    cutting whiskers. i.e. it will give you nicks but not shave whiskers
    well. Meat cutters do not like then either....

    The strop is to a razor as a steel is to a butcher knife.
    In use the thin edge bends and begins to fold. A strop
    or a steel will align and straighten the thin edge restoring
    the edge to its potential.

    A canvas + leather strop combo has a couple subtle interactions.
    The fiber of the fabric hooks onto small folded hooked bits of
    edge and pulls them off or pulls them straight. If it pulls
    them off they will soon oxidize and make an ultra fine abrasive
    that then polishes and cleans the edge a bit. The leather
    side continues this process. It further pulls and aligns the
    fine edge and it also work hardens the fine edge. Small problem
    bits of burr and steel also get removed by the alternating
    front back stropping motion. In part this pulling is reflected
    in the draw of a strop. Draw being the pull but as shell/ horsehide
    strop owners will tell you there is draw and there is smooth draw.

    When sharpening a knife the development of a wire edge is the
    clue to switch hones. It is proof that the bevel extends to the
    edge. The finished edge should not display a wire edge as it
    is too fragile but a couple honing strokes just short of a wire
    edge on the last hone stone is where it is at.

    One interesting exception might be noted. A friend returned from
    New Guinea and remarked that his bush crew prized a bright
    blue edge on their brush knives when they got them sharpened.
    Now I know that this overheating of the edge results in local
    hardening so the edge would last longer into the day. Oddly enough
    his name was Files so go figure he expected them to file their
    machete.

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    The name of the process where an edge is refined on leather is burnishing. There are some pics around here somewhere showing the refining of the edge as you strop. IIRC, butch harner posted them, but I can't find them right now...!
    Last edited by Stubear; 07-12-2010 at 07:33 AM.

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    Never a dull moment hoglahoo's Avatar
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    I don't think plain leather strops are aggressive enough to leave any kind of noticeable burr on the razor - as long as the spine of the razor stays on the strop of course
    Find me on SRP's official chat in ##srp on Freenode. Link is at top of SRP's homepage

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    Quote Originally Posted by niftyshaving View Post
    Two topics -- wire edge/ burr and stropping.

    One interesting exception might be noted. A friend returned from
    New Guinea and remarked that his bush crew prized a bright
    blue edge on their brush knives when they got them sharpened.
    Now I know that this overheating of the edge results in local
    hardening so the edge would last longer into the day. Oddly enough
    his name was Files so go figure he expected them to file their
    machete.

    Overheating an edge for any reason will not result in local hardening.
    Over heating an edge will soften the temper. Overheating an edge to blue will probably soften the edge just a little to a spring temper. This will result in a blade that may not hold an edge as long, but will be a tougher blade and not chip out as easily. This may be what they wanted.
    What were they using to sharpen that they got their blades that hot while sharpening.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    Welcome to SRP Chippy. Here is a PDF with a very useful writeup on honing and stropping from a 1961 barber manual in the SRP Wiki.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

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    Connoisseur of steel Hawkeye5's Avatar
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    I used to strop my knives after sharpening on a stone. Have not done that for a while, don't know why I stopped. Works on a knife just as well as a razor.

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