Thread: Hypothetical secondary effect of stropping

If shaving and stropping both work harden the steel, albiet extremely mildly, and do so at the 'root' of the fins then that effect, over a period of the first few strops and shaves, would continue up to the tip of the cutting tooth. This would very well explain why newly honed razors tend to act up a bit. The fact as well that it is a very low degree of work stress would also agree with why the teeth aren't broken off easily. It's also an argument to strop after the shave.

I think the thought experiment part of this discussion so far can be said to support the work stress theory. How to test it. Perhapse observation under a high powered microscope before and after each stropping which should also perhaps be done both before and after the shave, with careful notes taken on each observation, might prove somewhat conclusive.

This could be The Miniscule Experiment !

X

The only problem I see with this is that as you shave those micro teeth or serrations are being worn down and disappearing so even if the metal is being work hardened at that very thinest edge how long does that edge last before you have to start the whole work hardening process all over again.

Actually what I should have added is that as an edge dulls what is really happening there. Is it just becoming rounded off or is it actually undergoing some major physical change or is it wearing away and saying bye-bye to us?

I don't think so

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

...how long does that edge last before you have to start the whole work hardening process all over again.

About 15 or 20 shaves it seems.

Xman, if work hardening was the effect and purpose of stropping, why would it matter when you stropped? Why also, would it matter how many strokes you gave it - or on what type of surface. The canvas side would work just as well as the leather side and a couple strokes would do it because once you "straightened out the teeth", and so "work hardened" them, there would be nothing more the strop would do for you. I'll bow out of this discussion now, though.

Frustrated? LOL....I'm lost too.

Lets go back to the initial example. If I bend a paperclip back and forth it breaks and that proves its harder? Can someone explain that example to me?

If stropping work hardens the blade why does it need stropping on successive shaves? Shouldn't it be hard at that point?

Why can't the strop simply align the edge of the razor because of its consistency?

Are you suggesting that the tip of the bevel is moving back and forth enough to harden the blade and that makes it shave better?

Perhaps your referring more to the ideas presented by Herbert in 1927 when he suggested that steels harden via abrasion. So unlike the need to hammer at steel it simply receives a like molecular compression by abrading it against the strop. This was demonstrated by the hardening of rail ties against repeated train movement. Surely banging a hammer to harden metal and locomotive wheel abrasion hardening aren't taking place here on our razors.

Why the original assumption that hardening of steel is creating a better shave?

Lets go back to the initial example. If I bend a paperclip back and forth it breaks and that proves its harder? Can someone explain that example to me?

Bending the paperclip so that it is permanantly deformed work hardens a small area of the paperclip. particularly the area that had the yeild stress exceeded.

when the metal is made harder its strength increases. BUT its ability to withstand deformation DECREASES. In other words it gets mor brittle. you can take a soft steel and bend it without breaking it. take that same steel and heat treat it so that it is as ahrd as possible and then try to bend it. IT doesnt Bend, it breaks. The heat treated steel is harder and stonger but it is more brittle.

work hardening a material likewise makes it more brittle. That is why i stated earlier that work hardening is a primary component of fatigue failures. when a steel is repeatedly flexed it gets harder and more brittle on the surface, eventually a crack can form in the work hardened region. once a crack forms it tends to grow untill the part fails.

Sorry for the can of worms. Just idle speculation on my part.

For the record, I don't know what happens when I strop apart from the edge is made better for shaving.

It's interesting how the simplest things can be so confounding.

The thinking cap is now OFF.

&C &C
LG Roy

Originally Posted by PapaBull

... if work hardening was the effect and purpose of stropping, why would it matter when you stropped?

A good question. Clearly other factors are at play, like what the metal does on its own between shaving and stropping.

Originally Posted by PapaBull

... Why also, would it matter how many strokes you gave it - or on what type of surface. The canvas side would work just as well as the leather side and a couple strokes would do it because once you "straightened out the teeth", and so "work hardened" them, there would be nothing more the strop would do for you.

More strokes equal more stress, and it's far too assumptive to say that different materials wouldn't matter. They provide a different stress. eg. What would you expect to happen if you stropped on the 4000 grit Norton? Perhaps I like my canvass before my leather because it does more stressing while the leather does more aligning.

If work hardening can be upheld, we would perhaps see that lots of early stropping would benefit the shaving edge. Perhaps not all at once though, 5000 strokes with an hour between sets of fifty for example should bypass the testy early stage. Less stropping toward the end of the edge's life would also be an indicator. After 12 or 15 shaves a dozen or so passes might be enough.

X

P.S. Thanks for the worm LG.