Thread: Might be a strop question, might be a hone question...

So here I am puzzling over why my edge that looks so nice, and ready for shaving, fails in comparison to my professionally honed blade. I re-read the honing stuff. I ask some questions in chat. I strop on leather til I reach muscle failure...then I have an epiphany. I mean, seriously, how complicated could spine leading x-stokes on leather be? Oh, there's that linen side I saw Undream use once in a video...Boy do I feel stupid. This is where you all get to laugh. 25 strokes on a nylon strap I have laying around, and my edge doesn't even look the same. I have three very distinct bevels going on this blade. Each one just a hair steeper than the last. Presumably, only revealed after something like a nylon strap brushes away all the hanging and perfectly combed steel. Looks like I've got some reading to do. I'd be interested to hear what conclusions are formed based on this info. Please don't conclude that I'm hopeless. That'd be a real letdown.

You guys really were't kidding when you said the 1k's the money maker and the 12k's the star. Ok, nobody said that, but that's how I interpreted it.

Don't ya just want to meet one of those "honing is easy" guys right now and smack them upside the head????

Sharpening is easy, getting things to cut is easy, but honing a straight razor so it shaves smoothly isn't as easy as some people would like to think..
I have proof of that too, there are probably close to 1 million posts on all the shaving fora that basically ask the same thing you are you are not hopeless nor alone, if takes time and practice to go from getting something sharp, that cuts hair, to getting something that you actually want to drag across your face repeatedly everyday...
You just have to keep trying there is no real shortcut or trick, once you get it and repeat it then you are going to think it is pretty easy too

Do you have hones? Was your razor honed by the vendor, SRD or other? If not, 3 bevels from a strop? Sounds like you need to reset the bevel and start afresh. Not to say you can't get shave ready with 3 bevels. I have a Sheffield Civil War era that is honed on the spine to a basic real bevel. With 3 layers of tape it has a nice shave ready bevel at the edge with 2 old bevels above it. But with a newer razor and narrower bevel? I think you at least need to refresh the edge on a hone, but probably start over with a fresh honing. If no hones, suggest sending it out and starting over with delicate stropping. Best of luck, Howard

Oh yeah Howard, I got more hones than any 2-3 month shaver should even be allowed access to. But for this honing I used the Norton waterstones:220/1k/4k/8k. The razor is a BJ Eyre Late W. Greaves and Sons Patent Hollow Ground Sheffield...Which looks to me like a reasonably light grind. It has some ugly hone wear, but I just had to have it. Anyhow, the original bevel was about 1/8th inch wide, and I thought it looked bad. Just showing my inexperience maybe with that statement. I don't think the strop gave me an additional bevel. I think stropping on fabric, removed the metal hairs that were making it look like I had one nice bevel. I don't know if that makes any sense or not. But it's what I thought. It's no rush on fixing it. Dave gave me some really good advice on using the Nortons that I have yet to tackle fully. I have one member honed blade that I use as my measuring stick.

Originally Posted by regularjoe

Oh yeah Howard, I got more hones than any 2-3 month shaver should even be allowed access to. one nice bevel.

Boy, do I understand that! I'm starting to feel like "Tim, the Toolman Taylor"!! It sounds like you have about the same thing I did with the old Sheffield. It had no raised spine left and such extra wide bevels, and was thick enough at the bevels that I just left them and with the 3 layers of tape created a spine, basically, and it honed a nice narrow bevel and went very sharp, very quickly. The trouble with shaving with it is its so heavy that anything that gets in its way, little bumps, etc. it takes them off. That wedge weight and rigidity just aren't too forgiving. Sounds like you've got the know how and skill! You'll have it shaving in no time!!! Best of luck, Howard

Ps: it might have been 4 layers of tape I used. Since, I've started to keep a log of razors I hone. Found I couldn't remember just exactly what I had done to them previously. It's been very helpful since I started doing that.

Hey, Joe. I'm here w/ Glen's words echoing in my head. There's alot of those words that took no small amount of blood to comprehend. I think it was the 10/11 beginner's tips on honing that mentioned recommending 6 mo of shaving before diving into the rocks. I ignored it too, and suffered for it. So we're both in the dues-paying mode. Blade 253 honed last night. Do I have more of a feel for it now? Yeah, but still in that post euphoric state where sometimes it just seems like voodoo. Unlike other tools or hobbies, the hints from the blades are very subtle. 'Takes some time to learn to recognize them. This period is where perseverance or stupidity (too dumb to know when to quit) will be your friend. With each blade, you'll get to recognize sounds and feelings. You'll bang your head, chanting Glen's mantra of bevel, bevel, bevel. A vibrant sense of humor and sometimes some adult beverage can be helpful. Shavable edges come. Cranky blades will keep you humble. Your hands & fingers will become as sentitive as pressure gages. Your bag of tricks will become more full. You'll chant: 'I need more blades! (to hone)'. You'll look at rocks the way you used to look at a fast car, a gucci firearm or the latest techno-gadget. FWIW. The rocks aren't a silver bullet either. Your skills are. The skills just cost alot more. If one just defies you - send to someone you trust that has a few hundred blades under their belt - see if it defies them also. If so, maybe its not going to happen w/ that blade. You've had successes w/ your other blades. That's not small. 'Grats on those. They will be joined by many others. I have alot more appreciation now of Lynn's mantra of 'have fun'.

I know this is going to sound funny, but it seems like my honing turns out better when I have a whiskey during the process-- the magical powers of bourbon?!

No, I think that it's more to pinklather's point, slow down and relax. Plus, it makes it easier to follow Lynn's advice to "HAVE FUN."

Originally Posted by regularjoe

So here I am puzzling
...snip...
I have three very distinct bevels going on this blade. Each one just a hair steeper than the last.
...snip....

Three bevels? Hmmm what hone is associated with which bevel?

One trick is to use a magic marker to paint the
edge and then give the razor one hone stroke
(one=once on each side). Use a marker that has
an easy for you to see color.

Distinct bevels can come from the previous user.
Hones that have a different contour....
Tape....
Pressure....

Paint your razor with a marker... let it
dry for the 5-10 min it takes to soak
the 8k hone and test. The 8k hone should
clean the sharp side of the bevel and leave
no ink on the sharp side. Use a light
"zero pressure" hone stroke.

My old eyes need a bit of magnification
but often in good light I have seen
a thin ink line on the wrong side telling
me that the bevel is not correct. Further
inspection in good light I often see a
dull glint instead of a vanishing edge.
Daylight is way better than tube lights..

Another test is to probe the edge with a hair on the edge.
Not a hanging hair test but just a hair from my head
test. I take a hair and wipe it down the edge. It
will skate and slip on dull and stick and jump as it
moves down sharp. This often helps me discover
the small areas that do not yet have a good bevel.
Not a trick that works for all but it helps me.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Another test is to probe the edge with a hair on the edge.
Not a hanging hair test but just a hair from my head
test. I take a hair and wipe it down the edge. It
will skate and slip on dull and stick and jump as it
moves down sharp. This often helps me discover
the small areas that do not yet have a good bevel.
Not a trick that works for all but it helps me.

Niftyshaving, This may be in other posts, but I don't remember it. Thanks for the heads up, I'm sure to try this. Regards, Howard

Thanks to all for your posts, kind words, and advice. I'd like to report success, but I'd be stretching the truth a bit I think. I got a really thorough, and comfortable shave, but something's just not right yet. I'm gonna go back to the member honed blade for a day, and really pay attention to how it feels, and shaves. Then try this one out again, to see if I can put my finger on the difference. Could be any number of things I assume. It is super sharp, but I don't think it's "there" yet...Might just be the weight of it and my limited experience. I feel like I'm shaving with one of my chisels. Anyhow, it'll get there. Thanks again guys!