Thread: Linen "Leveling Effect"

Originally Posted by UKRob

0.125 micron is in excess of 100k grit - is this actually creating a fragile edge?

I never had problems with the edge. Members here use diamond pastes of similar grit size w/o problems.

Originally Posted by UKRob

Thanks for letting me know what CBN means - but could this also be the cause of the razor needing to be regularly sharpened? I'm referring to an earlier post which indicated that some steels cannot handle high grits and, as the 0.125 micron is in excess of 100k grit - is this actually creating a fragile edge?

Something at 100K grit won't have much effect on an edge except to polish it, and that shouldn't weaken the edge at all.

Originally Posted by Ryan82

With all due respect to Prof Verhoeven I must disagree.

Ahhh But you see Verhoeven was making the same mistake many people on here and the other forums make.. They begin to trust things like Microscope pics and HHT's instead of honing for comfort on the face...

At the end of the day it all comes down to how it feels on the face...

So Verhoeven wasn't wrong he said he could find "no discernable difference" but that meant in his looking through a lens not shaving his face


BTW this is also why so many disagree about finishers, stropping and pastes in the end we all have different faces...

Since the topic came up about stropping with linen, I have a question. I was wondering what apparent "grit" stropping on leather or linen would be?



Richard

Purely organic materials like leather and linen (unprocessed) have virtually no "grit" capable of significantly scratching the hardness of carbon or stainless steal. However, the leather processing and linen processing methods do leave microscopic silicates, chromium, inks, dyes, and other elements capable of effecting metal. An estimate, based on the maximum size of leather processing components would put most strops at 90,000 grit or finer. Linen is even finer, believe it or not, unless a paste has been applied. These are just estimates of course.

So based on the grit that you've stated we should be using the linen after the leather?!

Hmmmmm

Looking at my Diamond sprays and the "Grit" rating on them shows

.50 at 50k
and .25 at 100k

Shapton puts their 30k at .49 Microns

.10 sprays are considered to be near 200k

Sooooooo Plain Leather and Linen are 90k ???????????????????


Yeah I am going to have disagree here... of course I am not on board when people try a put "Mythical Grit" ratings on anything, from Coticules to CH12ks, to Barber's Hones, but there always seems to be this need to quantify things with numbers...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hmmmmm

Looking at my Diamond sprays and the "Grit" rating on them shows

.50 at 50k
and .25 at 100k

Shapton puts their 30k at .49 Microns

.10 sprays are considered to be near 200k

Sooooooo Plain Leather and Linen are 90k ???????????????????


Yeah I am going to have disagree here... of course I am not on board when people try a put "Mythical Grit" ratings on anything, from Coticules to CH12ks, to Barber's Hones, but there always seems to be this need to quantify things with numbers...

You are so right about the "mythical grit" ratings. We actually agree more than you may think. You continue to make my point with your comments in that above the 4,000 level grit level ratings get more uncertain and are estimated. The 0.5 micron CrO level is specified by most at around 30k. But your diamond pastes may say 50k. They are very inconsistent. What are we to believe?

One of the issues is that the original grit rating was based on AVERAGE particle size which could substantially vary. These were based on a few common substrates and were rarely higher than 400 grit. Extending the original grit standard above this is very difficult because it gives no consideration to hardness, particle shape, or effectiveness which vary with the substrate material. The new diamond pastes really have no grit equivalent due to these issues. A 0.50 micron diamond particle may be comprised of a variety of irregular crystal shapes with jagged edges corresponding to a wide range of effective grit levels, while the beauty of 0.50 micron CrO is a remarkably round, smoother crystalline shape with less pointed corners.

It is interesting that tanned leather may contain as much as 5% chromium compounds (also used in stainless steel), sulfates, salts, and other compounds capable of scratching carbon or stainless steel. This is why I estimate that the effective grit of leather is at MOST 90,000. Linen is not as predictable as there are so many varieties now, but depending on the processing method untreated, unpasted linen is most certainly LESS than leather unless it has something added. Of course regular readers of my posts already know that I use linen to clean my blade not to refine it. I believe untreated linen has a much HIGHER grit level than leather for the reasons stated. Of course we may all have opinions on this topic because like you I don't think there is a definitive answer to these questions. Thanks for your push back. It obviously made me think a bit more about this issue.

Thanks for the input guys. I know that a lot of abrasive qualities are very esoteric but I do know, for instance, paper has abrasive qualities. I used to work on elevators and have seen the tip of a tiny bit of masking tape put a groove in a stainless door after about 50 thousand cycles.


Thanks,
Richard

Originally Posted by riooso

Since the topic came up about stropping with linen, I have a question. I was wondering what apparent "grit" stropping on leather or linen would be?



Richard

Originally Posted by Gammaray

You are so right about the "mythical grit" ratings. They are very inconsistent. What are we to believe?

Of course we may all have opinions on this topic because like you I don't think there is a definitive answer to these questions.

There we go,I simplfied it a bit

Yer welcome