Thread: Stropping is King

Originally Posted by PapaBull

I can state for a fact that stropping does improve edge sharpeness even after honing. I've been sharpening stuff for year and for some years I religiously stropped my knives after honing to attain a hair cutting edge on them - one that they DIDN'T have after honing. But I'll also say that it took a LOT of time (hours) and manyh, many strokes (hundreds at least) to see that improvement

I've seen this with razors as well. I've had it happen a few times where a blade just wasn't getting quite there on the hone, and before I put it away till the next time I stropped it to get the last bit of water off the edge and lo and behold it starts popping hairs. But I've just assumed that there was some swarf nagnetically stuck to the fin that was interfering with the hair test.

As for the current discussion about a new strop and known razor hone, I think this is a good idea, and should not be construed as insulting at all. We've got an observation:

stropping can extend keep a razor sharp for up to a year

and a set of competing hypotheses to explain this observation:

(a) Scott has mad stropping skillz
(b) Scott's strop has mad honing skillz
(c) Scott has a different definition of sharp.

The proposed experiment should determine which of these hypothoses are false. I would amend the proposal to include Scott sending out his razor to Lynn for an initial evaluation, so Lynn has a baseline for Scott's definition of "shaving sharp" when the razor comes back to him at the end of the experiment - if the spectrum of "shaving sharp" razors I've gotten from members is any indication this is a much looser term than anyone would believe.

[quote=mparker762;75398]

I've had it happen a few times where a blade just wasn't getting quite there on the hone, and before I put it away till the next time I stropped it to get the last bit of water off the edge and lo and behold it starts popping hairs. But I've just assumed that there was some swarf nagnetically stuck to the fin that was interfering with the hair test.

I don't think this is the same point. You had a razor with trapped moisture or swarf that made it seem duller. All you did was force out the contamination to restore the edge to its original condition. It's not a case where stropping actually increased sharpness ro you were able to do it plain eather only.

[quote=mparker762;75398]
Quote:
I've had it happen a few times where a blade just wasn't getting quite there on the hone, and before I put it away till the next time I stropped it to get the last bit of water off the edge and lo and behold it starts popping hairs. But I've just assumed that there was some swarf nagnetically stuck to the fin that was interfering with the hair test.


[QUOTE=Joe Lerch;75415]

Originally Posted by mparker762

I don't think this is the same point. You had a razor with trapped moisture or swarf that made it seem duller. All you did was force out the contamination to restore the edge to its original condition. It's not a case where stropping actually increased sharpness ro you were able to do it plain eather only.

I read that as; He was not passing the tests after honing (wet thumb nail etc), so he would try again later but before putting the razor away he would strop it to remove the moisture from the cutting edge . This he found made what appeared a dull razor into a sharp razor.
The assumption that swarf was stuck to the edge was his granted, but not fact. He just assumed that was a possible cause. In point of fact, it did increase sharpness, he said as much. He would have to be unlucky to hit the spot on the whole of a razors edge that had a bit of swarf on it.
I offer the opinion that the razor was holding a wire edge and the stropping removed it. I would not hold this to be the reason just a possiblity. This was removed and polished by the stropping IMO.
mparker..please clarify!

PuFF

This has only happened a few times. I don't do the thumbnail test after I leave the 4k. And I generally don't do the thumb test once the blade starts getting close. And in my experience wire edges pop hairs incredibly well -- actually "popping" hairs is a red flag for me.

I generally strop the razor on a paper towel before I try any hair test to get rid of the water and swarf. I've always assumed that the leather stropping *really* got rid of any metal swarf that was stuck to the blade (martensite is magnetic).

Also, my hand american strop is getting darker on the side I'm using every day. *Something* is coming off the razors onto that strop.

Originally Posted by mparker762

This has only happened a few times. I don't do the thumbnail test after I leave the 4k. And I generally don't do the thumb test once the blade starts getting close. And in my experience wire edges pop hairs incredibly well -- actually "popping" hairs is a red flag for me.

I agree. I would never describe a wire edge as not quite there. If anything, it's really there and suddenly it's not.

I don't know if you stropped before you honed, but if you didn't and the fin was still misaligned, you cut off teeth that were really misaligned but lef those that were slightly misaligned, making the edge appear wider and not quite getting there. You also left microscopic spaces. When you shaved some moisture or swarf got into those spaces between the teeth. When you later stropped, it was forced out and the teeth were pushed together, making the edge seem sharper, and now it was there.

If you in fact stropped before you honed, you may have done so close to finishing a shave, and the teeth didn't have time to realign (up to 48 hours). With the teeth grossly out of alignment you need to push them much harder on the strop to get them back. Normal light stropping or even medium might not do it. That's why there's the danger of breaking teeth at this time (not my conclusion, Dovo's)..

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

I don't know if you stropped before you honed

The few times it's happened has been on ebay razors that I'm honing up the first time (lots of work on the 4k). Never seen it happen on one of my old razors, but the sample size is too small for this to be significant.

this thread is very hot and I am a very busy guy right now so I have a request. Could someone please quote me so I can find your response, reply to this and catch me up, as impartially as possible, as to nature of the proposed experiment and the general camps or viewpoints of the participants?

Please and thank-you very much.

X

Great thread.

I know, just for clarification that stropping gets a razor sharper, but that wasn't the context of this thread. I also know that some guys apparenlty think that stropping will sharpen a razor, for 6 months to a year and then suddenly, inexplicably, stop and need to be honed. I also know that we are about to jump into another experiment, about as far away from controlled as imaginable.

I also know that we will either prove that Scott can strop for a year with different equipment or he can't. Either way, the rest of us are no better off, except that (a year later) he still won't be able to find words that describe what he does.

I think it would make more sense to get the same materials; hone, strop, and razor (note the odd list of specific equipment he uses). Then have Scott explain what he does differently from what we do, while we try variances.

I'm going to work on getting the same type of equipment. I think I can learn to experiment to achieve better results (anything over 10 is better for me).

Should I look in again in 6 months to a year . . . or will Scott just say he was/wasn't able to replicate his success and can't quite describe what he does (again)?

How am I any different, except a year older.

I think the suggestion of using a new razor and strop and using lynn for the initial honing is a bad idea. We need to change one thing and see what happens. Since most of the discussion has been about the strop, that's the logical place to experiment. But if Lynn is going to evaluate the razor at the end, he needs to know what it was like at the beginning.

If in fact the strop was the special part, then this experiment won't take 6 months, it'll only take a month or so at the outside.

There's no problem with acquiring a matching set of Scott's equipment. If the success of that setup can be replicated elsewhere then we've got a much larger pool to experiment with, so we can isolate the magic ingredient that much quicker. And if it turns out that it really is Scott's stropping skills, then we'll need to come up with some way of isolating what is different about his technique.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Great thread. I think it would make more sense to get the same materials; hone, strop, and razor (note the odd list of specific equipment he uses). Then have Scott explain what he does differently from what we do, while we try variances.

I'm going to work on getting the same type of equipment. I think I can learn to experiment to achieve better results (anything over 10 is better for me).

Alan,

You are adding this for a little bit of sarcastic bite aren't you? I mean, I am using pretty much the same stuff everyone else uses.

Without using the emoticons, it's a little hard to tell the intensions behind some of the comments.

Scott