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  1. #1
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    Default Re-pasting pasteds

    With hardly any use on it at all, the Tony Miller 4-sided pasted paddle strop I got from DylanDog was man-handled by a curious friend, who rubbed his hand over all four sides while I stared on in stunned silence. Based on the dust that was on his hand afterward, I'd say he did a fair job of co-mingling the entire gambit from 3 micron to .25. I'd read that it's easy enough to clean the leather sides with saddle soap or Goop, but am wondering about how to clean off the balsa side before re-pasting. And since I'll be starting with all fresh surfaces, I may as well ask for the best sources from which to get the various abrasives I'll be needing.

    As always, thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Loudmouth FiReSTaRT's Avatar
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    Yikes That's why I don't let my friends touch any of the razor stuff without my supervision. I've never had to re-paste my bench hone (it's fairly large lol) but you should consider getting 0.5 micron chromium oxide powder from Hand American. That stuff rocks in the closeness and comfort departments

  3. #3
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    Before I got too excited about it I'd wait and try the thing - It may still work ok. The issue with cross-contamination when you're honing is that the contamination will keep building up every time you use the paddle, and that's a bad thing. But a one-time contamination may not be enough to warrant panic. Cross-contamination isn't a big deal if he got some fine grit mixed on the coarse-grit side, for example. And it may not be the end of the world if he got only a little bit of coarse abrasive on the fine sides - if its not too much it just means you'll get a few big scratches mixed in with a lot of fine ones, but after all this is roughly the effect you'll get from a pyramid.

    Anyway, wait and give it a try. If it doesn't work, then you can remove the grit from the leather with saddle soap and a toothbrush. You can remove the grit from the wood by lapping it on 1000 grit sandpaper, then scrubbing it with a dry washcloth to remove the sandpaper particles.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Tony Miller's Avatar
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    Okay, i'm with the better leave it alone crowd (along with the better find a better class of friends crowd too <g>). Most of the paste is embedded into the leather and what is left on the surface is a dry dust that will be unlikely to stick to the new surface your friend so kindly tried to apply it to.

    Leave it alone and use at is, all will be fine and it's can't be much anyway.

    I don't suggest saddle soap as I have no idea how my leather will react to water now that it is glued to the wood base. This is very likely to rasie the two outer edges, cupping the surface and ruining the paddle. I pretty much warrant my stuff against any defects in materials and workmanship like them falling apart, bad curls developing in the leather etc, but getting them wet is a sure path to ruin and beyond what I have control over.

    I think it will be fine but if you feel too much paste was removed I can gladly re-paste for you.

    Tony
    Last edited by Tony Miller; 01-19-2007 at 04:18 PM. Reason: can't type AND spell at the same time <g>
    The Heirloom Razor Strop Company / The Well Shaved Gentleman

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  5. #5
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    Definitely give it a try before you do anything drastic.

    I've washed the 3k grit off one side of my TM paddle and replaced it with Cr2O3 without ill affects, but I would certainly think that if things go wrong this is well beyond the bounds of any warranty. I kept my lather thick and used a toothbrush so I didn't slop lather everwhere, then buffed it dry with a cloth when I was done. I let it dry for about a week before I repasted it (I used it for daily stropping during this time).

  6. #6
    Super Shaver xman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mparker762 View Post
    I've washed the 3k grit off one side of my TM paddle and replaced it with Cr2O3 without ill affects
    What is the surface material on that side? I've been using my pastelled Cr2O3 on brushed leather and wonder if a different surface might work better or just as well.

    Who else uses the same compound and how do you have it set up?

    X

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    Leaving it alone was certainly the first solution that came to mind but, it being the simplest, I quickly dismissed it as ridiculous. Thanks for restoring my faith in it.

    Obviously I don't know what sort of pressure he used during the molestation, but his hand definitely had a good coating of powder on it. In his defense, he did stop as soon as I made a sort of "Waaaa!" sound. Unfortunately, I wasn't paying all that much attention to what he was doing because I was still trying to convince him that my MasterCraft rotary tool was actually a tattoo machine that I used to ink the punk rock girls around my neighbourhood.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by xman View Post
    What is the surface material on that side? I've been using my pastelled Cr2O3 on brushed leather and wonder if a different surface might work better or just as well.

    Who else uses the same compound and how do you have it set up?

    X
    I've had the following pasted setups:

    1) Roughout hanging strop from handamerican with flexcut gold and boron carbide.
    2) Tony Miller wide smooth leather paddle with 3m and 1m diamond (later chrome oxide and 1m diamond).
    3) Poplar paddles with boron carbide and chrome oxide.

    The roughout strop is mostly used for my knives, but it's also an atomic bomb sort of strop for "problem" razors. I'm not fond of the finished edge, but you can take it to the paddles after this for finer work. One other thing this gets used for: cleaning corrosion off of razor spines, and polishing scales.

    I got the Tony Miller paddle pretty early on when I was having trouble with my new Norton. The Norton turned out to need lapping, so the 3 micron side wasn't being used anymore. I scrubbed off the 3m and replaced it with chrome oxide. The diamond side is the finishing paddle for my TIs, and the refresh paddle for my Friodurs. The chrome oxide side was used for several months but isn't being used as much anymore.

    The poplar paddles are my go-to paddles for most razors nowadays. I've made a couple of them because the poplar keeps warping - I need to get some really good cabinetry-grade hardwood plywood to use instead. They're pretty simple, just a 10x3x0.5 slat of poplar with some paste smeared in the middle and about an inch of unpasted wood on each end for holding them.

    The poplar paddles were an experimental thing I did because I was concerned that the leather paddles were weakening the edge. My thinking is that the minor compression of the leather doesn't round the edge immediately, instead the weak fin just bends away from the leather as the bevel compresses it, so the bevel wears faster than the fin, the abrasive eats behind the fin and weakens it somewhat. Done to excess this produces an overhoned edge but the cause is different from a stone. Long before the edge gets to that wire state its still weaker than it was coming off the hone because of the wear behind it. I was noticing that even 10-20 laps on the leather paddle was seriously reducing the number of days between refreshes, and razors that normally could make it through a shave without stropping started needing the extra stropping (I nearly gave up on the paddle during this period, this is when I got my 15k Shapton).

    So I took a 3x0.5x10 poplar plank and lapped it flat, washed off the grit and nap, and pasted it with chrome oxide. The wood isn't as flat as the Tony Miller leather paddle, and it doesn't seem to hold as much paste, so these poplar paddles are slower than leather paddle. OTOH they also have no drag whatsoever, so you can use a very very light touch (negative pressure) and still get a very slow smooth stroke on the paddle. They produce a much finer edge than I can get from the smooth leather, though the razor needs to be sharper before you start because it is so slow.

    I've got another poplar paddle with boron carbide that I use for some razors as well; some razors like the boron carbide more than the chrome oxide, and some razors are hard enough that it speeds things up a bit. My Robert Williams razor was largely tuned up on the boron carbide paddle because the 15k Shapton wouldn't touch it at all. It took several hundred laps on the boron carbide, then another hundred or so on the chrome oxide, but the result was Feather sharp. So I had to back it down a bit, because a 7/8 quarter hollow is kind of hefty to be sporting that type of edge.
    Last edited by mparker762; 01-19-2007 at 08:32 PM. Reason: misc cleanup

  9. #9
    Member AFDavis11's Avatar
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    MParker,

    That was a very interesting post. I use balsa wood for my duties and enjoy it a lot. I mostly use a Tony Miller custom piece he made for me that didn't take off in sales, but it rocks. A full 3 inches wide. Love that thing.

    I noticed my edges needed light touches too. I suspected it was because the grit attacks the edge "from the backside" but your description helps clarify my thoughts a lot better. I found an extremly vertical reverse x pattern worked wonders. Don't tell anyone though, its a secret. I think what you said makes a lot of sense.

    Thanx

  10. #10
    Senior Member Tony Miller's Avatar
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    Alan,
    Refresh my memory on the "special". I don't remember if t was extra long or what.

    I have been using balsa a lot more lately on my own paddles and find it an interesting material. It too offers nearly zero resistance when stropping but seems very effective with 0.25 or 0.5 diamond abrasive. I was going to try one with chrome oxide as well.

    I played around with solid wood and MDF paddles, sans leather but find as MParker did they hold little paste and are painfully slow. I do still offer an all wood paddle but one ought to be really sure they want that version as to me it is not a normal performer. despite seeing a complete MDF/diamond honing set at a woodworking site I find it nearly useless and stopped making it. They hold no paste and are worse than plain wood. The MDF is a perfect base for leather or balsa but not used alone with pastes.

    So, what was that special we did?

    Tony
    The Heirloom Razor Strop Company / The Well Shaved Gentleman

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