Thread: X-stroke or not?

Confucius say:Shortcut very good on road trip, you reach destination faster.
Shortcut on road to shaving knowledge take you on road to regret.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Confucius say:Shortcut very good on road trip, you reach destination faster.
Shortcut on road to shaving knowledge take you on road to regret.

With deepest respect-
I never argued for or against, or advocated not using the x-stroke (if I did, that was not my intension). I was merely interested in the how and why the x-stroke gives better results. When members of your's, Glen's, and other's caliber state that something works - I believe them. However I am, and always have been, unsatisfied with only learning the what - I am curious to know how something does what it does and why it works the way it works - this has always given me a deeper understanding and appreciation for any topic of discussion or conversation. I just like to know (to the best of my ability) how the world works.

Originally Posted by Joegags

With deepest respect-
I never argued for or against, or advocated not using the x-stroke (if I did, that was not my intension). I was merely interested in the how and why the x-stroke gives better results. When members of your's, Glen's, and other's caliber state that something works - I believe them. However I am, and always have been, unsatisfied with only learning the what - I am curious to know how something does what it does and why it works the way it works - this has always given me a deeper understanding and appreciation for any topic of discussion or conversation. I just like to know (to the best of my ability) how the world works.

May be you missed my post, but I gave you the answer.
The contact the blade makes with the strop is full when doing x-stroke. When stropping, naturally, the hand does x-stroke.

Originally Posted by roughkype

Imagine a small burr in the center of your blade. If you never vary your strop stroke, you'll eventually erode the strop surface where the burr is. With an X-stroke, you'll distribute that wear more evenly over the leather. In either case, of course, you should go to the hones and repair the burr. At the scale of razor edges, this is an extreme example. They are microscopic creations, and their work is done at the microscopic scale. For that reason, I believe that we should take every proper care to even out microscopic sources of wear and tear, and for me that means X-strokes on every strop, no matter its width.

The necessity of X-strokes (and rolling X-strokes, which the OP approaches describing) for smiling edges manifests at a more macro level. Even if you're starting with a new, nonsmiling blade, you may want to cultivate a rolling X-stroke on the hones, since it's so much better to err towards honing in a smile than towards honing in a frown.


/

Thanks for this -
In my original post in this thread I tried to state that the answer to my question (why are x-strokes prefered) must lie somewhere in the realm of the angle of the force exerted by the strop on the edge.

I was having a hard time "seeing" the process properly in my mind's eye - this helps.

The "rolling" x-pattern (is it fair to say it is really more of a sweeping motion - that's what keeps coming to my mind) is used when stroping smiling blades for the same reason it is used to hone smiling blades, only the motion is reversed - is this correct?

In this case, you basically want to roll (or sweep, in my mind!) the blade so the tangent of each point on the line of the smiling edge moves, at some point during the stroke, in a manner that is perpendicular to the length of the strop. Quite a mouthfull, but is that right?

thanks again for your reply

Originally Posted by Joegags

Thanks for this -
In my original post in this thread I tried to state that the answer to my question (why are x-strokes prefered) must lie somewhere in the realm of the angle of the force exerted by the strop on the edge.

I was having a hard time "seeing" the process properly in my mind's eye - this helps.

The "rolling" x-pattern (is it fair to say it is really more of a sweeping motion - that's what keeps coming to my mind) is used when stroping smiling blades for the same reason it is used to hone smiling blades, only the motion is reversed - is this correct?

In this case, you basically want to roll (or sweep, in my mind!) the blade so the tangent of each point on the line of the smiling edge moves, at some point during the stroke, in a manner that is perpendicular to the length of the strop. Quite a mouthfull, but is that right?

thanks again for your reply

You do not strop with rolling x, just x-stroke and that is it.
Now if you are honing then that is another story.

Originally Posted by mainaman

May be you missed my post, but I gave you the answer.
The contact the blade makes with the strop is full when doing x-stroke. When stropping, naturally, the hand does x-stroke.

This thread and especially this post, made me go and strop my razor on my AWESOME Tony Miller Heirloom and really pay attention to what was going on when I "got into a groove" and I have to say that it's an X stroke. It naturally happens! Just not as pronounced as what I've seen the youtube tutorials do. I destroyed two strops trying to over-exaggerate the move when I was learning.

My advice for beginners (which I still absolutely am as well) is to concentrate on not gouging the thing then once the "flip" is "muscle memorized," go ahead and slowly modify until you're x-ing. It can't hurt and scientific proof or not, guys who've been doing it for a long time seem to ALL say that the X-stroke is better.

But then that's what working for me... you might do better learning the x from the get go...

Originally Posted by mannye

This thread and especially this post, made me go and strop my razor on my AWESOME Tony Miller Heirloom and really pay attention to what was going on when I "got into a groove" and I have to say that it's an X stroke. It naturally happens! Just not as pronounced as what I've seen the youtube tutorials do.

Exactly now if only some people listen ...

Originally Posted by mainaman

May be you missed my post, but I gave you the answer.
The contact the blade makes with the strop is full when doing x-stroke. When stropping, naturally, the hand does x-stroke.

I did see your post and thank you - it is helpful.
When thinking through the process and trying to fit the responses together, I could not get myself out of a narrow definition of "the blade makes contact with the strop." In my minds eye, a 2.75" blade on a 3" strop was already making full contact without doing anything, and I could not see how your simple statement answered my question - again I just couldn't "see" it - now, with all of the replies and thinking more on the small scale (edge, not blade) I think I do - so again, thanks.

As an aside, however, I also don't want to be misunderstood - I do not want to be seen as someone who takes shortcuts because that is not who I am - If that is what has come across in my posts that was not my intension. Like I said, I just like to know how things work.

Thanks again for your help.

Originally Posted by Joegags

I did see your post and thank you - it is helpful.
When thinking through the process and trying to fit the responses together, I could not get myself out of a narrow definition of "the blade makes contact with the strop." In my minds eye, a 2.75" blade on a 3" strop was already making full contact without doing anything, and I could not see how your simple statement answered my question - again I just couldn't "see" it - now, with all of the replies and thinking more on the small scale (edge, not blade) I think I do - so again, thanks.

As an aside, however, I also don't want to be misunderstood - I do not want to be seen as someone who takes shortcuts because that is not who I am - If that is what has come across in my posts that was not my intension. Like I said, I just like to know how things work.

Thanks again for your help.

The contact is never perfect. With time the strop may cup a little, not all razors are perfect straight, so the contact is never perfect. Straight stroke will work ideally with perfect everything, but the x-stroke makes all parts fit when the individual condition is less than perfect. I can see your confusion, the stropping is direct action on the edge it gently burnishes the steel and smoothness it very nicely.
The rest of the razor does not benefit from stropping.

Quick visual aid & rhetorical question.
Which part of this razor would get stropped when drawn straight over a 3" strop ?