Thread: New Kanayama - Surface imperfections

A lot of good points ... on both sides.

I have a #3. It's a very nice strop! My one beef, and for myself, it's an important one, is that I'd much prefer natural linen as a second component. And this is the point that keeps me from shelling out the coin for an expensive K strop.
I've got a Neil Miller, shell cordovan and natural linen in the length and width I like, made to my specs, and it's all the strop I'll ever need. As a matter of fact, if I was twenty years younger, I'd by an extra, exactly the same from Neil ... Just in case of the unlikely event, I managed to wear the original out.

Originally Posted by Druid

A lot of good points ... on both sides.

I have a #3. It's a very nice strop! My one beef, and for myself, it's an important one, is that I'd much prefer natural linen as a second component. And this is the point that keeps me from shelling out the coin for an expensive K strop.
I've got a Neil Miller, shell cordovan and natural linen in the length and width I like, made to my specs, and it's all the strop I'll ever need. As a matter of fact, if I was twenty years younger, I'd by an extra, exactly the same from Neil ... Just in case of the unlikely event, I managed to wear the original out.

Good point - my favorite second side is Neil's linen. I like my Neil Miller so much, attempting to get one of his shells is definitely on my list.

Originally Posted by Christel

$100 is a bargain prices for a strop? I can't help thinking that there is a yawning chasm in perspectives.

If you price shell cordovan, you'll think that $100 for any strop made with cordovan is awfully cheap. I went out of my way a few years ago to get horween shell and the leather basically cost me $150 for the strop. Horween nailed me for $225 with shipping for the shell and I sold the remaining leather of the shell (after I cut the strop out of the longest part in the middle) for $75. Great strop, but still, it was $150 for the leather and no linen and i had to make it and brass fixtures to hold it together.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I've had plenty of strops in my time and none are like that one. It really is different. Does it do a better job? No it doesn't but it's like everything else in life. You pay your money to get quality in places that are important to you. Otherwise we would all be driving around in Yugos.

The kanayama 80k I had was like eating premium ice cream vs. eating frozen flavored ice (much smoother). I have strops that are broken in that do a little better than my 80k kanayama, but comparing a glazed up horse butt strop with 750 strop sessions on it to a brand new razor isn't fair. I'm sure had I kept the kanayama, it would've developed that slickness on the surface and been heavenly and super.

Plus, it's shell. Where else is anyone going to get new shell cordovan? I really like cheap horse butt strip if a clear section can be found, but it's rough until it's broken in, which probably takes 2500 strokes. Before that, it marks a razor a little bit.

The kanayama premium stuff is very fine, and unlike some of the dissenters seem to be implying, not by any means a $100 strop with a $300 price tag.

Originally Posted by DaveW

If you price shell cordovan, you'll think that $100 for any strop made with cordovan is awfully cheap. I went out of my way a few years ago to get horween shell and the leather basically cost me $150 for the strop. Horween nailed me for $225 with shipping for the shell and I sold the remaining leather of the shell (after I cut the strop out of the longest part in the middle) for $75. Great strop, but still, it was $150 for the leather and no linen and i had to make it and brass fixtures to hold it together.

Where did you get the Horween Shell?
do you have a source? because you cannot buy it from Horween.

I actually did get it from horween. I have a thread on here somewhere about it, but there was a catch, and it's as follows:
* I called horween and they referenced me to a retail group of theirs that was marketing leather at the time. Like anyone else would want to do, I wanted to make an online order so I had a record, but I couldn't do that
* I called the retail number and talked to a salesperson, you know, like the old days - one who talked me through what I was looking for and we settled on shell

It worked out like this:
* I placed the order and gave the guy my credit card
* He asked what color I wanted and what size, and then said I'd hear from them (I think it was via email) when they had a shell for me
* Either he or someone else said basically that when I was getting just one shell, I'd be getting it when one of their bigger customers didn't need them. If I wanted burgundy then I'd be waiting until the bigger customers were satisfied. That was fine with me, it took about 2 months.
* it was $175 for a no. 2 shell which yielded me one 23 inch strop. Somehow the price with shipping and whatever else ended up being closer to $225 by the time I got it. Because it was an old school talk to the salesman and get nothing in writing kind of deal, I took my lumps on the shipping

I can check my email history if you'd like me to find out who it was that I talked to and give you their number.

The way business was conducted (i literally took a half hour of a salesman's time for a single no. 2 shell), I can't imagine that they could stay in business on the retail side.

I just looked in my emails, and I called someone named Eric Frank at the retail arm of Horween that was called "Tannery Row".

I have no clue if it's still in business. That was october of 2012. I got to them by going to horween first, and they gave me the contact information for their retail group.

Back then, the commentary I got was also that you couldn't get leather from horween retail, and I saw that several places (not just here). I'd always call them to check first if you want it, and not rely on people online telling you that it can't be gotten retail. They just don't have the easily available shells in an online store or anything.

It helped that I wanted to use mine for a razor strop, because no 2 shells don't usually have a clear run 23-24 inches long, but because I had talked to them for a bit about it and brought up razor strops and said I was an enthusiast, they went out of their way and found me a no 2 shell (1.75 square feet is the size of a no 2 shell) that was a little longer and narrower.

If you do manage to get to them, even if they still have a retail group available, expect to wait until they've satisifed their regular customers, and they won't be able to tell you when that will be, you just make your order and then wait to get lucky.

I will say this, it makes a heavenly strop. The best broken in strop I have ever used is a long clear horse butt strip that I made myself, but it was no treat until it was broken in and slick. This horween is its equal. Most other retail strops I've used have not had the same ability of either of those two to maintain a well honed edge as sharp and smooth for as long as either of those.

Horse butt is easy to find, but not necessarily easy to find in 24 inch clear runs, and it's not suitable for the most part for professional strop makers because their clientele isn't going to tolerate the answer of "hey, use your regular strop for two months but then strop a junk razor on your horse butt strip strop ever day on top of that until the horse butt strop loses the gritty feel and becomes slick".

(having those two strops among every other, I still use the horse butt on a day to day basis. I'm saving the horween for something, and what that is, I have no clue - i know it has a finite life span, and the horse butt seems to go the other way - starts off rough gets smooth. The horween looks to start off smooth and then the surface treatment wears away and it loses some of its slickness).

Gents:

In my particular situation I had 2 years ago a horween. Really, I sold it. It's just paint. In the other hand I could get a Kanayama and hey, top its just awesome. Keep it. forget about the rest a Kanayama is natural stuff.

Thanks'
Ken

It's in the treatment, I guess. I don't know that I'd say horween's shell is "just paint". Shoes have been made from it that last 50 years. It's a shame we're not slaughtering horses over here in large numbers so that we can get it at a reasonable price. I'd love to have shoes made from it, but the cheapest I've seen are allen edmonds and they're $600. The kanayama cordovan is different - thicker and softer, and having had both at the same time, I prefer the horween - it's harder, faster, and out of the box it makes for a keener razor. It might take the kanayama some time to wear into having a mirror shine, I didn't keep mine long enough to find out because I was worried that if it didn't, I'd have a well used strop that I wouldn't be able to resell.

I do have a piece of hanging horse butt that is on par with fresh horween, and it cost a grand total of about $15 (I had to make the strop, though) and a little risk to get a butt strip that looked smooth in a long run (you never know until you get it). The catch is that horse butt has to be worn in, but once it is, the surface is reflective. It is as good as anything I've used, and leads to a keener edge than a kanayama 80,000 did straight out of the box. Horse butt strip is wonderful stuff untreated for someone who is willing to make their own, and do the work to find a clear run, *and* to break in the strop to turn its hard abrasive characteristics into fast hard and slick.

At any rate, there's more to horween shell than paint. The shell leather is entirely different than anyone else's, including kanayama. Veg tanned horse butt with no surface treatment is unbeatable for the stingy, though. At least in a hanging strop. It's too hard for a paddle strop.

I have a pair of Bostonian Shoes that are Horween. I got them around 30 years ago and they look as good as the day I got them. It's expensive but they wear like iron and outlast everything else so in the end they aren't as expensive after the initial outlay.