Thread: Did Illinois ever make Cordovan strops?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I'd bet they are what they say they are. As I posted earlier, I think before WWII there were a lot more horses in use, and a lot more slaughtered when they were no longer useful. Glue and leather goods were probably the main uses, along with dog food. So chances are the shell was more plentiful, and therefore more reasonably priced. Neil will correct me if I'm (shudder) wrong ......

Heaven forbid!

My dear sir, to my certain knowledge you said you were wrong once before, but upon further reflection it transpired that you were right...

Regards
Neil

That certainly makes sense Neil regarding the thickness of the older shell quite rightly back in the day traditional breeds such as the Suffolk Punch Clydesdale and Cleveland Bay were all beasts of burden with over developed muscle structure so the cordovan would be much thicker and no doubt these genetic Characteristics would be past on to their off spring, as these breeds basically died off with the greater industrialization of agriculture and use of tractors these horse were of no use and died off so obviously the only shell available to the tanneries would be fine skinned animals such local hunters and smaller native breeds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk_Punch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Bay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clydesdale_horse

I have only this to add. I have no idea what type of leather this strop is. And I'm not about to cross swords with Neil on the subject of strops

It is what it says it is, ie shell, ie horse.

I have noticed that when an expanded description is used, particularly in the early days of Illinois strops (founded 1907 by James Simons then handled by son Edwin before changing the name to Fromm International in 1984 I believe) "shell horse hide" was often used.

This did indeed come from draft horses, and the location of Chicago was chosen because it was a major meat packing centre, had a number of tanneries and was a major rail hub.

Indeed, Isidore Horowitz, a ukrainian jew who learned the tanning trade abroad set up his company there in 1905 - I. Horween & Co. They made shell strops too, thicker than the shell cordovan used today, but only for a brief period, say up to 1916 or thereabouts when ever growing sales of safety razors forced them out of that particular market. Their signature and oldest leather was chromexel though, similar to latigo of 10 years or so ago, being a pull-up type of cowhide with superior strength. These days it comes in a very greasy form to moderate draw form.

Illinois Strop Co were of the opinion that shell was the best leather available for strops, particularly for hollow ground razors, recommending the russian style for more wedge like razors, altough it too worked well on hollow grinds, it just needed proper breaking in first (by which I mean pumicing in tne direction of the grain with heavy tallow based lathering).

In the mid 1960s Illinois began to push Fromm shears and other products, leading to the name change in the 1980s. It is certain thar since that time only cowhide strops were produced by them, still marketed under the Illinois name.

Regards,
Neil

Ps shucks Mike, you make me sound all argumentative and ornery - say it aint so...

Neil, your knowledge of strops, their manufacture and history is matched only by your cosmic curmudgeonliness...

And I Thank You for the excellent info on Illinois Strops.

Curmudgeon definition: a crabby, ill-tempered, crusty old man.

How very dare you Mike - I'm not that old... those wrinkles soon fill out when I stand fully erect!

Regards,
Neil

I have one of the old butt illinois 226 strops, that says "genuine horsehide" on it. It's horse butt strop, and as neil described, it's not similar to a shell cordovan strop.

Illinois coated the strop with something, and the coating has not held up well. As a user of butt strops in general (but usually just cut from a horse butt strip), they are a great strop after they are broken in with use, but that presents a problem in selling them. I guess illinois must've come up with a process to apply to the butt, I just like a broken in butt strop better. They become very slick and hard with low draw. In my opinion, something like horween is best at brand new, but as it wears and the surface treatment is damaged, it is not as good. Shell like on a kanayama probably gets better, it starts soft and supple.

Horse butt is far off from either of the types of shell (the slicked horween type or the supple kanayama), but it improves significantly with use. A brand new piece has enough abrasiveness that it needs to be stropped on about 30 times before it loses its edge. Not 50 strops, but 30 sets of 50...if the leather is just cut from a butt strip (and the butt strip needs to be clean and clear without curl or random wrinkles). To a user, this means bringing a separate razor to the strop every day when stropping another razor, and stropping it briskly - for a month. At the end of that month, the strop improves the edge coming off of the linen instead of abrading it (and a fresh piece does abrade the edge of a finely honed razor).

Broken in butt is my favorite strop material, above and beyond cordovan. One can take something like mineral oil on a rag and clean the surface of a butt strip piece and have no effect except to make it even slicker and finer in finish on the razor. I haven't tried doing such a thing to a softer strop, but I suspect it would have the opposite effect, to increase draw.

I have a Koken, Barbers Hand finish, Imported Shell Horse Hide Strop that also has a Scotch linen strop included. At the bottom of the horse hide strop it says "Made by the worlds finest strop makers"!
With a little treatment with Wilson premium ball glove oil, this has become a great strop for my razors & knives. Any idea when this strop was made? Also says No 1 Selection.
Slawman

Originally Posted by Slawman

I have a Koken, Barbers Hand finish, Imported Shell Horde hide strop that also has a Scotch linen strop included. At the bottom of the horse hide strop it says "Made by the worlds finest strop makers"!
With a little treatment with Wilson premium ball glove oil, this has become a great strop for my razors & knives. Any idea when this strop was made? Also says No 1 Selection.
Slawman

I've got a Koken with the same imprint on the bottom. On the top it is marked, "Imported Shell, Natural Finish." It is a very old strop, but in virtually NOS condition. Thinner in depth than my C-Mons, dubl ducks, Red Imp and other vintage pieces. Not quite as thin as Neil Miller's shell cordovan. A great strop it is. Koken was a supplier to the barbering trade. Their barber chairs are were among the most ornate that I've seen. I'm pretty sure they had the strops made for them with their emblem. If mine is typical of the breed they are as good as it gets.

I guess we are stealing the "Illinois" thread but I love Koken stuff. I have a Koken "New Charmer" Straight that is my second favorite Solingen made razor. My favorite razor period is "The Peoria" from J.Schnider & Co. A Barber supply from Peoria IL. It is Solingen made piece also.