I understand one or the other but I don't understand why it makes sense to do both.
I understand one or the other but I don't understand why it makes sense to do both.
Before shaving gets the edge ready. After shaving, usually fewer laps than before shaving, cleans the edge of soap, water, etc. for clean storage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustagj
I never considered this as a cleaning process. Thank you.
Nah, you will have many weigh in to say that they do not strop right after shaving because the edge needs to settle, or some such thing. Whether or not that's the case, if thou clean the blade with water after shaving, and dry it well, you can just strop again some time before you shave - the night before, right before, it doesn't matter.
I've read numerous articles and posts on this subject - strop before and after, or just before. A couple of posts, and the thread is probably on here somewhere, spoke of letting the edge "rest" and NOT stropping after the shave. It seems to make sense, maybe some of the veterans could chime in.
I do about 5 laps after just to be sure the bevel/edge is dry
Yup.. Do 15-20 laps on the strop after shaving.....just to get that edge cleaned up,before I put it away.
Hi Ecormier: Have you ever heard of "Letting the Edge Rest"? Some guys I've read insist on it.
The notion of stropping to be sure the edge is dry makes some sense to me . . . but what about the rest of the blade?
Air dry, or toilet paper between scales, or hair dryer.. it's what you like..
We all seem to settle in to some routine that works for us.
And your local conditions (humidity for instance) can have some impact on post shave care.
Me? Before is 20 Fabric, 60 leather, after is 20/20.
But I also put a tiny drop of oil and distribute over the blade before I put it up (I wipe that off before I strop)
Nobody wants to shave with a rusty razor...I'm just saying'
Smooth Shaving...
I tested this a while back. Two weeks with the same razor every day then two weeks resting the razor. As long as the preshave strop is good you will be ok. I found no benefit to stropping or not stropping after shaving.
I stored the razor in a humid bathroom during the test. I do dry the razor well with a micro fiber towel after shaving.
After this test I stopped stropping after the shave finding no real gain, I have however as of late, found I enjoy stropping after the shave and now do 20 on wool after the blade has been dried.
Letting the edge rest? Geez, about as much mileage in that as the tooth fairy and santa claus.
Regards,
Neil
Once I woke up one of my razors before it was fully rested and it screamed the entire time I shaved with it. YMMVQuote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
That's nothing Bill - I have to keep my very large collection in a sound-proofed room, as the snoring kept my wife and me awake of a night-time.Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Regards,
Neil.
PS: I also have a humungous collection of seashells... say, you might have seen them? I keep them strewn on the beaches of the world.... :)
I give mine 10 laps linen/10 laps leather after shaving to make sure the edge is dry
Just a thought - it didn't have eyes and could see what it was shaving, did it Bill?Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Regards,
Neil
I've been wondering who put those in my sand collections............lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Seriously, after wiping down and leaving to air in a warm place, blade open, for twenty or thirty minutes I give mine 20 laps on a cotton-canvas strop after shaving to dry it thoroughly, and a few laps on an oily strop I have to coat the bevel.
Overkill, I know, but if you have ever opened a razor to find tell-tale creeping lines of rust on it that you put away a while back, you will know why I do it.
Regards,
Neil
Well Rod, a lot of folk have told me that you 'have a lot of sand' - now I know what they mean!Quote:
Originally Posted by rodb
Regards,
Neil
It's a metaphor cobber all this resting and waking up stuff.....and, I'll have you know, a drug addled Tarot card reader who once caught me without clothing referred to me as an Adonis. So Neil, your covert suggestion (of my ugly mug) is just derailing the thread and disregarding the real life concerns of the OP. When we have new members crying out in the dark (and refusing to use the search box) have some compassion! For Christ's sake man, use your wisdom not your wit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
How rude of you, Bill, and completely unprovoked! Whats more I do believe that the drunken Tarot card reader must have been using braille tarot cards...
As you know, I have no time for people who cant spare the time to help themselves...
Regards,
Neil
Egads man, you are hopeless, still Neil, YMMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Neil, one article I read was written by an individual who had a college degree in metallurgy and a penchant for using and honing straight razors. His opinion was based upon an actual study on the subject, and he provided microscopic pics to show the gradual "growth" (his words not mine) and slight realignment of the edge over a short period of time without stropping after shaving. His conclusion, a straight razor should ideally "Rest" (Again, his word not mine) 48 hrs., but not less than 36 hrs. before stropping. Sounds like you have a similiar background in metallurgy, you just disagree with his findings. I would be very interested in hearing about the research that forms the basis of your opinion for you to give such credit to the "tooth fairy" and "santa clause". You may very well be right, but in view of the fact there are folks out there that strongly disagree with you, you could greatly legitimize your statement if you provided something more than, "Geez", "Mileage", "Tooth Fairy". I believe I read awhile back that Lynn A. does not strop after shaving anymore, but I concede, my recollection may be incorrect on that one. It would be great if Lynn could chime in on this topic. Joe :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Have known and worked for some very well educated Machinists that will not sharpen endmills and carbide lathe bits until they rest for at least 24 hrs,they could not explaine why:(.
Annnnnd AWAY we go! :rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfirejoe00
I strop before and after shaving. I also clean and dry between the scales with Kleenex tissue. I then put a little of SRD oil on the blade. I strop before for a better shave I strop after to help clean and dry the edge and blade. I use the oil for the prevention of rust. I don't have the numbers of razors that a lot of you have but it may be a month or two before I use the same razor again. I don't shave but about 2 times a week. To let a razor rest well that's something I really don't understand. I've been a mechanic and welder for most of my life. I do understand oxidation. if left exposed to air any metal will oxidize to some extent. depending on what kind of stainless it is it rust. So that's my reasoning. Right or wrong . I know I don't have a degree from some higher learning place but I do understand I like my blades and do what I can to take care of them. Each to there own.
I said what I said with former postings - many of them, I assure you, in mind. All here on SRP.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfirejoe00
Agreeing or disagreeing, to whatever extent, is human nature. People have had, do have, and will have conflicting theories and ideas - it is in our nature and I couldn't give a toss about it, so I am certainly not getting into a p@ss@ng contest over it.
I believe in plastic flow theory (look it up if you don't know what it means - do not ask me) and the research on coticule.be that concludes the edge is realigned with a good stropping. No reason to wait 48 hours or more to see if that works.
These opposing theories have been around long enough, and I guess folk were a bit more inclined to believe in fairy tales in the 1600s and 1700s then they are today.
I do not know about your friend, but he should know that no one experiment in isolation serves as a theory. Many experiments, blind tests, people overlooking the steps performed, etc, etc, all these are needed. For your friend:
1. Lighting at extreme magnification is critical - a slight variation can be the difference between smoothness and a ragged looking moonscape.
2. What sort of microscope - I doubt that an optical type could do the job. Probably a scanning electron microscope of 5000 mag would be necessary.
3. In use a razors edge picks up a lot of detritus - skin cells, dust and many other things - these would have to be excluded.
4. To ensure the soundness of the experiment, it would have to be performed in an a suitable environment.
5. You would need to perform the experiment with 'control' razors, too.
During shaving, the edge can be rolled back a little in very small areas by particularly strong bristles, and tiny bits of metal can be lost. Stropping serves to ameliorate all this. If you agree that metal is crystalline in nature, which I believe it is, then it could (possibly) grow back - in the shape of well defined crystals. But why should this 'growth' be directional - has it some sort of memory? Why would it not grow back at all crazy angles, like regular crystals do, thereby cancelling out any effect? It would not, would it, no more than Santa can get down my chimney.
As an aside, I am with Groucho Mark on this issue, as is explained by the classic A Night At The Opera movie
ZEPPO: Hey wait (reading a contract) what's this?
GROUCHO: Oh that? That's in every contract...
ZEPPO: Well, I dont know...
GROUCHO: It's in every contract - its what they call a 'Sanity Clause".
ZEPPO: Ha - you cant fool me - there is no sanity claus
GROUCHO: You win the white carnation...
or words to that effect!
And what about lightly etched razors from way back when? Why have the engraved lines not grown over with new metal growth? You may cite passive resistivity forming a protective coat, but many owners regularly polish the blades, thus removing this ultra thin protective layer.
How about the tang in the pivot pin area? It is constantly, in some if not most razors, being rubbed by the scales thus showing bright metal - if we keep it dry. Why, in razors of 200+ years old, have we not seen this area grow chunkier with new metal? Because it isn't happening is the logical answer.
You may say that is all just regrowth of crystals (though in this world of ours nothing is generated from nothing, you cannot make matter), what about re-alignment? This indicates that you think the old steel alloys used to make razors with have a sense of what they edge looks like. Why the edge? Can't it remember what the freshly ground blank looked like, or the blank metal piece it was forged from, or the fiery conglomeration of liquid metal? No, it prefers to remember itself as its best - steel must have some intangible feminine component, I suppose! So it has the power to force a micro rolled area and wavy serrated edges back into line? In preference to moving them out of line? Or making them roll up further?
And as for well educated Machinists, they might very well be well educated, but what in? Not in edges, etc growing back, or they would be able to explain it, wouldn't they?! Machine shops and metal works are a rich source of myths about metal, and that is a fact, not a myth! Ask Mike Blue - he has debunked much of this tiresome old 'folklore' in his posts here.
Some things like this have no answer, just like the Northern Ireland problem, eastern terrorist mentality, the prevalence of masonry in some circles, etc. I guess its a person thing. I know a heck of a lot of people who have tested the theory of ;resting' (some call it 'tired' razor syndrome) and have not felt any difference at all - I am one of them. I guess you know just as many who cite the opposite. C'est la vie - maybe they belive in UFOs and alien abduction too.
Regards,
Neil
I have read a tome on this subject by Edward Lilywhite Norton (he quotes heavily from an earlier work by one Ralph Kramden) where he delves into Quantuum Physics and simply says that if you believe it, it is true and further, we make up everything. If only Lynn would help us......someone please send out the Bat-Signal!
Perchance the same Ralph Kramden of the 'To the Moon" theory?Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Ah - The Honeymooners!Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Yabba dabba do, Bill (Ralph was also the model for Fred Flintstone).
Sorry, but I have to chime in here as I had a similar experience while posting:
First, to the OP: I agree with the most of the folks here - try stropping before, after, before and after - find what works for you! Maybe edges need to rest, maybe they don't. I live in near zero humidity, but, if I liked by the ocean? I'd probably strop before and after, just to try and remove any possible moisture or rust on the blade... that's me though - makes sense in my head anyway! (and no one wants tetanus)...
Second, from my experience on this thread (and lots of others)... this is the INTERNET. People love to voice OPINIONS and state them as facts. I explained my position on this site, and some "senior" member who is supposedly some kind of "scientist" babbled on about how he thought my explanation wasn't valid (he was SO superior that he couldn't explain his position though...) Of course! since he has been a member on some thread for 8 years he MUST be speaking ex cathedra because he says he is old and wise and super and what not... (At least he claims to be - he could be a 16 year old kid right? It IS the internet after all...)
Furthermore, I see people asking Mr. Lynn Abrams for guidance: Mr. Abrams, I like your site, I think your videos are great, I've bought stuff from Straight Razor Designs (and been very pleased with my purchases)... AND I still don't think you're the absolute final authority on all things related to razors! (oooooohhhhh!!!! - sacrilege!!!) ...
I'd like to hope that everyone here has a brain and uses it! The statement "Your Mileage May Vary" is used a lot in wet shaving circles, but it seems like it isn't actually believed by a lot of members! The only thing I can say with any certainty is what works for ME - that's IT. The folks on here who think they know it all because they are metallurgists or Nasa scientists or homegrown engineers or whatever - the one thing that absolutely CAN be said with certainty is that they don't everything about ANYTHING.
Just some words of wisdom:
Education doesn't guarantee wisdom. Degrees and titles don't make anyone smart or intelligent. If anyone tells you their way is the ONLY way, they're wrong. Opinions, even from the most learned and experienced people can be in error. Opinions, even from the greenest and inexperienced neophyte can be game changing.
AND... Don't believe anything you read on the internet....
[QUOTE=Neil Miller;1468465]
And as for well educated Machinists, they might very well be well educated, but what in? Not in edges, etc growing back, or they would be able to explain it, wouldn't they?! Machine shops and metal works are a rich source of myths about metal, and that is a fact, not a myth! Ask Mike Blue - he has debunked much of this tiresome old 'folklore' in his posts here.]
Neil,I spent a yr in Holland working at phillips with Dutch Machinists that all had decades of experiance.
Do not have to ask Mike Blue Anything,he is a master of what he do's without question.
But I will ask you,what is your educational Backround in metal working and the makeup of differant metels (other than what you have read about)
Pixelfixed, I did a little in grammar school, a bit in the 6th Form, a bit in a years foundation course, a bit in a two year diploma course - none of which were metal specific - and a year in a silver-smithing course.
Not a lot I know, but with the help of innumerable books on the subject (by respected authors, not quacks) and the many iron and steel workers here like Mike Blue, along with serving time in machine shops like the Salisbury Forge and Thorn Lighting (you would not have heard of them) I have reached a stage where I will not need any more unless I take up forging myself.
I have had a rich and varied job history, working on building houses, road and footpath construction, hotels and bars - more than I can remember, but what sticks out is the cussedness and crass stupidity of some of the older workers - the elite, you could call them. I never took any of their fairy-tales in, though.
Regards,
Neil
@Neil Miller
Sticklers as were are for accuracy in resting steel an other things...
't'was Chico. Groucho, by the way, never let ANYTHING rest.
Sanity Clause: http://youtu.be/KS2khYJZKwA
Dovo is the only company , i know of, that advises rest for razors.
The others below advise stropping before & after.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/shavi...ng-basics.html
Than we Differ neil.I have always gone by the experiance of others that I respect.
I worked with a very old man a few yrs back building a natural rock wall,I worked for free just to learn,no morter,no supports,all free standing.
He was Crass,he was not very bright,he had no formal education,but he had 60 yrs experiance in the art of Rock walls.
the above has nothing to do with metals,razors etc,but when an old Machinist with decades under his belt tells me something,(call me stupid) I believe it.
We are evidently talking about different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
I too respect a well honed craftsman who is exceptionally good at his job.
But say he was a crass dry-stone waller - I wouldn't listen to his theories about talking stones, stone spirits, kobolds and elves any more than you would - because doing his job well is one thing and folklore is another.
I hope you finally get the point.
Neil
Now I have to go - I am a junior in a machinists shop and they have asked me to go and get a spare bubble for the spirit level and a packet of elbow grease. I don't know, these old duffers'll lose anything...
I stand corrected, Sir! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMoo
Zeppo only appeared in the first films, then eventually left. And there was another - Gummo, who did not enter film making at all.
Regards,
Neil
On this note, I recently was fortunate enough to acquire a really pristine Nowill razor. Rolled-up in the box was this pamphlet from 1913. Advise from J. Nowill and Sons!Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
Attachment 194959Attachment 194960
