Thread: Why an "X"?

Originally Posted by ScottChapin

Why should the stropping motion be in an "X"? Intuitively, I think going back and forth along the same diagonal would be quicker and more natural. Does it maintain uniform wear on the strop, or is there another reason?

It doesn't have to be in an X.

I personally find the X more natural than going back and forth along the same diagonal. Since the straight back and forth diagonal is more natural to you then it may well be the best way for you to get the best results

Originally Posted by ScottChapin

Why wouldn't back and forth on a slant give full contact?

I see what yer sayin', and your right, you'd still get full contact. What you'd be lacking is symmetry. Is symmetry that important? I don't know but I like it better. The full movement of the X stroke is an hour glass shape if you consider also the movement at the ends to achieve a heel first stroke every time. The movement your speaking of would be a single slanted line running from top left to bottom right every time, up and back. In my mind, your stroke represents 2 different types of movement where the X stroke is the same type of movement done in 2 directions. On a strop it might not matter but on a hone you would end up with your fine scratch marks leaning different on each side of your edge rather than being a mirror image of each other. Does that matter to the sharpness? Again, I don't know, but I will be looking forward to the test results. In the mean time I'll be sticking with symmetry, just feels right.
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I agree with the OP. If you are using a pattern that gets both edges, completely, on each stroke, it doesn't matter much.

The reasons an x pattern is recommended is that I think there was a historical connection between the shave quality and the x pattern. The pattern is used when honing and it was surmised that over a long, long time, the strop might support the striations added through honing.

So there was this concept that you were stropping WITH the honing, or if you think geometrically it might be actually against the honing, but anyway . . .

In practice though these striations don't really seem to be too important, especially with the really high grits we use in honing today.

To this day though, there are a few people who say that they can tell a little difference, and for some people a little difference in shave quality is really important.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

The pattern is used when honing

In that vein, why not hone back and forth along the opposite diagonal so the razor teeth are kept happy? The question "why the x" didn't go away yet. I am wondering if the X just helps most people keep a smooth and continuous motion rather than the stop and go of straight back and forth

Are you asking me? I think it does in practice make it easier. I'm not smart enough to understand the first part of the question about the "opposite diagonal".

I don't think all that stuff about striation patterning in the barber's manuals was just made up and they didn't really believe it, but it's certainly possible.

I've also got this hidden thought that razors are really to supposed to be unequally sharp along the entire length. As in the barber's manuals it says "use the top of the razor for the top of the chin . . . And the base of the razor for the bottom of the chin". That has always left me a little curious, beyond the obvious that the base is more stable. Ive always wondered if a little variance in the blade wasn't somehow . . . Appreciated. When I shave the most delicate hairs on my face I always use only the tip, which is always, for some reason, the most sharp part. When I shave really tough whiskers like my upper lip and base of my chin, the base of the blade always works so much better. And, bingo, that's what those pesky barber's manuals say your supposed to do!

I'm working on a PhD but I'm not smart enough to figure out what's going on with the edge of a straight razor.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'm not smart enough to understand the first part of the question about the "opposite diagonal".

I am too dumb to communicate to future PhDs well. Let me try again

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

The reasons an x pattern is recommended is that I think there was a historical connection between the shave quality and the x pattern. The pattern is used when honing

Yes, I agree, assuming your fabulous graphic is color coded, one for hone, the other for a strop. But, then we would be getting questioned about the second pattern, wouldn't we? Why do I need to use an "opposing diagonal?". And worse, we'd be discussing what an opposing diagonal actually was, too.

The only thing that concerns me is that many people assume that the relationship is complementary, when I think the relationship, between hone and strop, is actually supposed to be perpendicular. So that the strop is supposed to wear OFF the striations and not work in-line with them. So I think, because of the directional difference (spine leading vs heel leading) the x pattern is designed to work in the exact opposite of honing and more quickly eliminate the striations. We now do this with a 12k, or 16k hone instead. But, the concept is the same.

I'm not sure if your pattern does the same thing, that of working either directly with or against the striations. What do you think?

Remember, the razors orientation is reversed on the strop. So I believe that the same pattern creates the opposite effect, and thus more effectively removes the striations and creates the better edge, similar to a higher grit stone.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I am wondering if the X just helps most people keep a smooth and continuous motion rather than the stop and go of straight back and forth

Well, I'm a noob and want to get it right up front. The reason I posed the question, is that my intuition tells me the "X" is more awkward; so there must be a solid reason for it? On the diagonal, all you have to do is roll the blade between strokes. On the "X" you have to add a shifting motion at the end of the stoke to get a figure eight. More motion seems like more jerkiness to me.

I'm guessing that you start the roll while the blade is moving and complete it after it has come to a complete stop; maybe even reversing your motion prior to bringing the edge back into contact with the strop. Adding the shift to these rolls seems like rubbing your head and patting your belly, only having to switch back and forth.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

So I believe that the same pattern creates the opposite effect, and thus more effectively removes the striations and creates the better edge, similar to a higher grit stone.

I do too, which is why I described it as complementary. If there is anything practical to striations for straight razor shaving purposes, which I personally doubt, I agree that the stropping ought to be working against the striations produced by the honing. So unless I honed with a spine-leading stroke, the diagram shows strokes which oppose the striations themselves from hone to strop but complement the effectiveness of polishing the razor's bevel. Again, I barely managed a BS degree (I am trying to hone - pardon the pun - my BS skills )

I still don't know why honing with an X is traditionally preferred over honing back and forth in the same direction if it accomplishes the same thing. If it produces a different result, however, that is interesting and I wonder how or why

Originally Posted by ScottChapin

On the "X" you have to add a shifting motion at the end of the stoke to get a figure eight. More motion seems like more jerkiness to me.

For me, the X just naturally developed. My first strop was wide enough that I didn't feel a diagonal stroke was necessary, but over time as my stropping improved and speed started to increase with confidence, my muscles just sort of naturally and gradually transformed the strokes into an x-pattern

Again, my hoglahoo advice is to start with what feels natural as long as you are making good contact between the strop and the razor bevel at all points throughout, maintaining a smooth stroke and keeping the spine on the strop

Reverse the motion before the razor touches down, otherwise you'll nick the strop to pieces. I can also assure you that any complete stropping pattern works really well.