Thread: Ranking of strop materials

Originally Posted by Martin103

Horween might sell you a piece of cordovan but is it suitable for strops?

I think their early history was mostly strop leather. They'll know what makes a good strop, even if most of what they sell now is for shoes, belts, wallets, archery gloves etc.

Originally Posted by DaveW

I think their early history was mostly strop leather. They'll know what makes a good strop, even if most of what they sell now is for shoes, belts, wallets, archery gloves etc.

Keith DeGrau had a relationship with them due to the volume he would take. OTOH, he did say that it was few and far between because of Alden, Florshiem and the other shoe makers getting the majority of the shell cordovan.

I think the idea behind the 'roo is that it's a much more uniform grain than other strops. When we're looking at microscopic differences in scratch patterns caused by honing etc. I think this has some relevance. I'm not doubting that cordovan is a superior quality material for stropping purposes but the grain of horse and cow leather is definitely not as uniform or fine as 'roo. If the desired effect is achieved from using X material then that's all that matters. I doubt that anyone but the most experienced and discerning people would really care or notice a difference.

I personally use a vintage pigskin strop that I picked up at an antique shop and get excellent results from it as well. Pigskin, from what I understand is a much tougher leather than either horse or cow and was used, historically, for making leather soles for shoes.

If what you decide on is cordovan then that's a great choice and from what i've seen online, probably cheaper than any 'roo strop on the market.

I know his name has come up a couple times in this thread already, but Obie's Conversation with Neil Miller has some great information about the leathers Neil likes and his selection process for a given purpose.

It's interesting that Neil dislikes most what I like most. I'm guessing a hard card-like leather with no draw could easily describe horse butt strips when you get them. They are hard, abrasive, and no draw.

But once broken in they become glassy, super smooth and with....no draw. I have not ever been a big fan of heavy drawing leather, though I do have a bunch of cowhide strops that I tried, some with heavy draw, and didn't like. Maybe I didn't let them break in long enough.

But I love what a glassy horse butt strop does for the edge of a razor. Everyone has their preference, of course. There's no way a strop maker could sell a rough hard horse butt strop untreated to a user where the cohort would include a lot of beginners. But I didn't do anything on mine other than bend it a few times, but about 10 drops of neatsfoot on it and use it over the course of a month. Within about 15 strops, it had lost enough aggression to surpass all of my cowhide strops and within a month, the cowhide strops went to the back of the closet for good.

I have seen other barber literature that described the horse butt undesirable because of the glossy surface and lack of draw. Maybe I'm too lazy for draw! I'm definitely too cheap to buy a pre-made shell strop.

I don't care for too much draw either. Of bovine strops the SRD premium 1 had the best feel for me. I prefer horse though and a very small amount of draw. The Tony Miller latigo felt like the razor was going to be pulled out of my hand but the horse has no draw. Maybe it is what we get used to. I know guys that love draw, the more the better.

None of that I said above is to be construed as me disagreeing with Neil, he knows a lot more about strops than I do. Just an instance of me deciding what I will use instead of me reading what other people like and deciding that I'll use that and I like it because everyone else does.

If horween doesn't get back to me (I wouldn't blame them if they didn't), then maybe I'll just request a kanayama strop from the wife for christmas.

Originally Posted by DaveW

It's interesting that Neil dislikes most what I like most. I'm guessing a hard card-like leather with no draw could easily describe horse butt strips when you get them. They are hard, abrasive, and no draw.

But once broken in they become glassy, super smooth and with....no draw. I have not ever been a big fan of heavy drawing leather, though I do have a bunch of cowhide strops that I tried, some with heavy draw, and didn't like. Maybe I didn't let them break in long enough.

But I love what a glassy horse butt strop does for the edge of a razor. Everyone has their preference, of course. There's no way a strop maker could sell a rough hard horse butt strop untreated to a user where the cohort would include a lot of beginners. But I didn't do anything on mine other than bend it a few times, but about 10 drops of neatsfoot on it and use it over the course of a month. Within about 15 strops, it had lost enough aggression to surpass all of my cowhide strops and within a month, the cowhide strops went to the back of the closet for good.

I have seen other barber literature that described the horse butt undesirable because of the glossy surface and lack of draw. Maybe I'm too lazy for draw! I'm definitely too cheap to buy a pre-made shell strop.

Just for the sake of clarification:

I used to make strops from horse-hide, but as Dave guessed they didn't go down too well with newbies. I then 'broke-in" the horsehide before making the strops, but they looked like second-user strops at the end of the process and I wasn't happy with the appearance, although they served their function very well indeed. I reserve horse-hide for paddles now. I did make mention in Obie's article about 'breaking-in' FWIW!

My use of the term 'card-like' in the article was a bit vague, I suppose. By using it I did not mean just the 'hardness' of the leather, but it's similarities with thick card. there are a lot of strops - mainly of eastern origin and found on Ebay, that have this characteristic. The leather used looks like it is a cowhide split, very close to the flesh side, which has been rolled under pressure and surface treated to give it smooth even surface. They don't flex very much, and the fibres look large, which is a sign that we are using the last usable split before we get to the stuff used for making suede - the fibres are naturally looser than nearer the surface and appear coarser, which is why they are pressure treated to give them more cohesion and strength. However, the strops made from such leather are not mechanically strong - attempt to bend them too much and at best you will get some surface crazing, at worst some cracking. They are cheap rubbish.

Horse-hide, on the other hand, is of a completely different nature, the fibres being more akin to muscle fibres - strong, cohesive, fine and regular. It will bend. In the old days strops made from it were broken-in by hand at the factory if they were premium strops - you had to do it yourself if they were regular strops. The breaking-in originally consisted of bending the strop leather over something smooth, like a fixed roller. and pulling it back and forth - for hours. No doubt they automated the process at some point.

I don't dislike horse-hide or shell - or any strop with minimum draw. In fact I like them - a lot. The reason I don't use them much is that they are expensive and I strop an awful lot of razors each week, razors that I hone for other people as well as my own, together with half-round leather 'head' knives, gravers, skiving knives, etc. The razors don't do much damage but it accumulates with any little slip - like my neighbour unexpectedly knocking on my window while I was stropping or my wife yelling her lungs out at me when she has discovered some (real or imaginary) misdemeanour on my part without any attempt of forewarning me. Not BIG misdemeanours mind you: cigar ash, the unexplained absence of liquor bottles from their accustomed places and asking her mother where she has parked the broomstick all count for a stealth verbal assault. The very small knifes and those with very curving blades tend to slice things up a bit. So I use an equally good, but cheaper leather.

Regards,
Neil

Thanks for the clarification, Neil. I agree that the ballgame is different making strops, it's easy to be patient breaking in your own if you make it but not so easy as a newbie buyer looking for instant gratification.

I do keep cowhide in my shop for the same reasons you described, small blades, sharp corners on them, little metal particles unknowingly getting embedded, etc. It's nice to ruin cowhide rather than horse butt strips, and cowhide is definitely easier (for me at least) to work with in cutting out the odd strop that may be used for chisels or some shop knife.

As for the transgressions, nothing seems out of line to me! But I get the same reaction from my wife and have to remind her that sometimes I am holding a razor when she slams doors open or tests her vocal limits. Just don't use my line.."I don't see how you could possibly hassle me over this when I am only telling the truth". "this" could be anything, from MIL, to SIL to wife's friends. Always act surprised, though, as my dad taught me, at least you know what you're in trouble for if you don't try to fix any of your behavior (esp. when it doesn't need fixing).

I am glad to have missed the asian strops.