Thread: Another "When is it worn out" question

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Amazes me that people even want to attempt a restore on a razor that is just plain done...

And hence my question. Where does recovery end and futility begin particular to spine thickness. Is a spent spine a sign of just plain done?

If I can hone it to shave ready without tape, I keep using it.

I have a soft spot for well worn old blades. I guess there's something about knowing that they've been a functional tool through the years that I enjoy.
Needing to add plastic tape to hone them ruins that for me.

Originally Posted by MisterMoo

And hence my question. Where does recovery end and futility begin particular to spine thickness. Is a spent spine a sign of just plain done?

It just might be that there really is no definitive answer that applies to every user. Really if you can hone it to shave ready no matter it's faults/condition then it is still usable. If on the other hand you don't want to go to the effort for whatever reason then it is spent. Sorta like how high is up?

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

It just might be that there really is no definitive answer that applies to every user. Really if you can hone it to shave ready no matter it's faults/condition then it is still usable. If on the other hand you don't want to go to the effort for whatever reason then it is spent. Sorta like how high is up?

Bob

Up is twice as far as half way up. I agree, if you want to, and can, take the time to get it in shave ready condition, then its still functioning. If you cant, or are unable to, then move to the next one.

I know the answer....... YMMV

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I know the answer....... YMMV

Exactly as with so many other things.

Bob

You could hone without tape and would just end up with a wider bevel. It may also make a thinner weaker edge.

I would tape the bevel with two layers of tape and paint the whole bevel with a sharpie. Do a few laps on a stone and look at the width of the new bevel. Add or use less tape to get the bevel you are looking for, 1/16 - 1/8 inch. Once you have a new bevel set and honed it may be years before you need to hone again.

Paint just the edge with the sharpie by it running on the edge, with the edge straight up. This will paint a 1/6 of an inch on both sides of the edge. Strop on nylon or plain leather to make sure you are stropping all the way to the edge. You should hit the edge with a hanging strop without tape on the spine.

What we have to remember is many of these razors sold for a dollar or two and were fairly disposable, if they lasted a couple or 10 years that was good enough. That thinking and barber hones that were pretty aggressive leads to what we see today.

So how far do we go to restore? It’s like most things, like cars and motorcycles. Guys are “restoring” cars where they are replacing frames and 90% of the sheet metal because there are fewer and fewer of them. Really rebuilding stuff that a few years ago were just scrap.

Personally I do not buy anything like that, hone ware is the first thing I look at. But if you have it and it has personal value… go for it. It is just time, really it can be honed until it will not hold an edge any longer.

It is surprising how fewer razors you see in the wild, compared to just a couple of years ago. And have you seen the price of vintage brushes?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

You could hone without tape and would just end up with a wider bevel. It may also make a thinner weaker edge.

I would tape the bevel with two layers of tape and paint the whole bevel with a sharpie. Do a few laps on a stone and look at the width of the new bevel. Add or use less tape to get the bevel you are looking for, 1/16 - 1/8 inch. Once you have a new bevel set and honed it may be years before you need to hone again.

Paint just the edge with the sharpie by it running on the edge, with the edge straight up. This will paint a 1/6 of an inch on both sides of the edge. Strop on nylon or plain leather to make sure you are stropping all the way to the edge. You should hit the edge with a hanging strop without tape on the spine.

What we have to remember is many of these razors sold for a dollar or two and were fairly disposable, if they lasted a couple or 10 years that was good enough. That thinking and barber hones that were pretty aggressive leads to what we see today.

So how far do we go to restore? It’s like most things, like cars and motorcycles. Guys are “restoring” cars where they are replacing frames and 90% of the sheet metal because there are fewer and fewer of them. Really rebuilding stuff that a few years ago were just scrap.

Personally I do not buy anything like that, hone ware is the first thing I look at. But if you have it and it has personal value… go for it. It is just time, really it can be honed until it will not hold an edge any longer.

It is surprising how fewer razors you see in the wild, compared to just a couple of years ago. And have you seen the price of vintage brushes?

As with several others above, very helpful to my understanding the difference between well-used and spent.

Originally Posted by Nightblade

If I amy throw a wrench into this discussion. I have been curious. Tape is used for honing today. But before tape it was honing with bare steel I assume? Given that and given the fact that many of those old razors which lived full lives and are again being used today are still functioning beautifully in a lot of cases I might add. Well,...what I am trying to get at is. Just how damaging is it really to hone without tape. Since your using light pressure,how long in terms of months or years would one imagine it would take before the razor was un honeable ?? I say this because I hone without tape. Is this more of a purist thing or will my razor be unuseable in a few years ? I have often been perplexed by this whole tape thing which is why I ask ?

Simply put, "It ain't that simple"

Keep in mind that many of the older Sheffields have a softer spine than the edge (Tested, go find it on SRP) so you added another wrinkle to the whole issue..
Add in just plain "Bad Honing" and take into account that all spines are just NOT perfectly even from the factory, and that grinds can be a bit off too, and you have a recipe for what we see all the time on e-bay etc:

The great statement people toss out of, the spine and edge wear the same, should be prefaced with "In a perfect world"

Here is some math plus hands on experiments about the entire Taping thing to peruse


http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...-theories.html


ps: The angle as tested on multiple razors by multiple users right here on SRP came out to be 16°, there was an old article that ONE brand of razor posted that they targeted 17° and somehow people took that to be truth not realizing that only one maker stated that...
One recent maker started life with their razors at 13° - 14° and found that they had issues with the edge crumbling and chipping.. Another, some years back had razors in the 22° plus range and people bragged about his edges.. Some of this comes down to the steel also, see like I said it isn't so simple..


Conclusion after testing, measuring, reading, and posting, about this for years now... Tape if ya want,, don't tape if ya want, it is after all your razor


As to the OP

Spent is when the razor can no longer function in it's capacity as a shaver...

You and I both have seen some pretty "Worn to Nuttin" razors out there that were obviously shaving until the day they went in the back of the drawer.. It basically comes down to what each individual decides is the point that the razor no longer functions...

Take an Extreme Hollow Grind, they honestly only have 1/8 of an inch (some even less) of edge before you are into the "Belly of the Blade" now you could continue to hone and shave that blade for many years after that, but as you get deeper into the steel you are getting a stiffer and stiffer edge For me since I like Extreme Hollows, once that happened, IMHO the razor no longer functions as a shaver... BTW read the above link to get an idea of how long that would actually take with PROPER honing...

I have been thinking about the even spine and edge wear thing, I don't think it woild hold true, as the amount of metal in contact with the hone would need to be the same on both ie if your bevel is 1/8" then the amount of spine in contact with the hone would need to be 1/8" or the narrower area would wear quicker, well maybe anyway, perhaps a metal working person could expand on or debunk this for me. Thanks ed.