How to efficiently cut slabs for scales?

This is one I've been trying to work out for a while without buying yet another piece of machinery. I'll buy more equipment if it'll solve this, but before I do I thought I'd run it by the forum since most of you have probably already solved the issue.

I have a few boxes of exotic hardwood pieces that are all in various shapes - from 3/4" thick up to 8" and larger - as well as some thick pieces of other materials. I'll sometimes just use my compound saw to cut a few slabs for scales but the kerf of those blades are almost as thick as what the final scale will be - and that just seems like a terrible waste of wood. Tried using the scroll saw but that gets uneven slabs since I can't figure out how to make a good ripping guide for it. That results in almost as much waste as a result of sanding to get the slabs flat. Hand sawing using a very thin blade works, but again, uneven slabs.

So, does anyone have an approach that results in 1/8 to 3/16 thick wood slabs that doesn't involve a kerf that's just as thick? Couldn't find a thread on this at first look but there may be one in here that I can't see. Seems like a little table saw that uses a really thin blade would work but I can't find one online and Woodcraft doesn't seem to have what I need.

On a side note, I've had RAD and HAD for years, but this may simply be a symptom of some "restoration equipment acquisition syndrome" as well as signs of "scales material acquisition syndrome" as well. :hmmm:

Mike

I use a band saw with a rip blade. Ripping thin stock with a compound miter saw is an accident waiting to happen - can't recommend that to anyone. Not a good idea on a table saw either. If you are serious about this, get a band saw. Used ones are available at reasonable prices. Good luck. I share your TAD.

You can buy thin kerf blades that will greatly reduce your waste.

You can buy zero curf blades,but be carefull,they can bite you:(
as above a bandsaw is is the best tool for slabbing.You can find a used rockwell delta (american made) for cheap and rebuild it for less than 50 bux.Than you need a good fence.
Sadley my fence cost more than my bandsaw:(
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...one/Zowada.jpg

My fence is a piece of 1x2 and 2 C clamps.

I agree with Pix, I use a mag base that I can move and lock down on the table so I can slice some slightly bent stock and blocks. Horn slabs are often bent a bit~
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...me/magbase.jpg
~Richard

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Originally Posted by skipnord

My fence is a piece of 1x2 and 2 C clamps.

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That works to a point,Great idea Richard:)

I like Geezer's method. Mine is actually a piece of 1x2 with a rounded end. That way, there is a single point of contact, which adjusts for the fact that the blade doesn't always cut perfectly parallel to the blade itself.
Geezer - where do you get an on/off magnet like that? My TAD is kicking in.

Harbor Frieght,dial indicator base.

Yes bandsaw. I got a jet (horizontal) from Amazon that shipped free, etc. It has a vertical mode and I clamp a piece of stock to get the cutting depth you want as others have said.
I know it's another expense, but once you have that bandsaw you won't know how you did without it, especially if you are cutting metal stock.

A little tid bit of info to share that might help when using a bandsaw. I tried it with regular wood blades in a couple different teeth per inch sizes and they always seemed to cut crooked even with the guide down as close to the wood (whatever material) as possible. To solve the problem I switched to a metal cutting blade, fed the stock slowly and got great results. You might cut it a little thicker than desired to leave room for sanding saw marks which are considerably smaller with the metal cutting blade.

I tried using the wood cutting blades for cutting acrylic and some times it wood crack/shatter the acrylic. The metal cutting blade seemed to work better plus you don't have to change the blade when you want to cut metal.

Huh I have the same problem with cutting straight slabs(with the additional problem of not having a place I could call a workshop). Sometimes I tr to compensate with a hand "angle guided" saw, but when possible get them sawn by some who has a eg band saw. Do any of you have an idea of somesort hobby saw that might do the job? I know that this is miles away from what sou are talking about here, but in my case this kind of saw is not an option (kitchen table during the night). Maybe sth like this Attachment 143078?

Bandsaw will always be the best option,You can actually do very precision work with a properly set up saw.
What most people do not realize is that bandsaws have quite a few critical adjustments and all have to work in consort.
Here isa very usefull Vid on the subject.Band Saw Clinic with Alex Snodgrass - YouTube

Most of us suffer from "restoration equipment acquisition syndrome" and I commend your struggle against this and all tool acquisition addictions. There's a lot of great advice her, but I didn't find this one: ask a friend for help. You may not have the tool but he/she may have. Ask. It's a friendly thing to do.

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Originally Posted by miha

Huh I have the same problem with cutting straight slabs(with the additional problem of not having a place I could call a workshop). Sometimes I tr to compensate with a hand "angle guided" saw, but when possible get them sawn by some who has a eg band saw. Do any of you have an idea of somesort hobby saw that might do the job? I know that this is miles away from what sou are talking about here, but in my case this kind of saw is not an option (kitchen table during the night).

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You may be able to cut scales with that but you are not going to have much success cutting slabs. You have a pile of nice scrap to cut down ? Find a friend or make one :<0)

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

You may be able to cut scales with that but you are not going to have much success cutting slabs. You have a pile of nice scrap to cut down ? Find a friend or make one :<0)

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Also, check with your local VoTech ( Vocational Technology School)! They often have very cheap evening woodworking classes that will allow you to enjoy good tools without owning them. Some High Schools do also. I did that for years when i was often re-located around the country.
In service? go to the base hobby shops!
~Richard
A well adjusted table top hobby type 8" bandsaw will work well also. There are two and three wheel machines available and always at local online auctions for $40 or less.They cut to about 4" of thickness. Just feed the stock slowly. A good idea is to use a thin wedge in the saw kerf behind the blade to keep the material from binding the blade. Make it out of a craft stick or similar and just make a long taper on the flat to a edge.

I also use a bandsaw. Mine was designed for resaw work. If you didn't have the intention of opening a cabinet shop I can't see laying out the cash. In my case, previously had a cabinet shop. I'm sure ask a friend for help is the best advice here.

Had anyone ever used a Japanese hand saw for this? They are thin and sharp, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to rip a flat, thin strip for scales.

I am absolutely certain that in the right hands a quality japanese rip saw would do a miraculous job, just not my hands. It takes a little practice to be good at such things.

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Originally Posted by Atchbo

Had anyone ever used a Japanese hand saw for this? They are thin and sharp, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to rip a flat, thin strip for scales.

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I remember a post where someone did use that handsaw with a simple guide to saw off slabs.
~Richard

Japanese pull saws are excellent saws. Because they cut on the pull they can't buckle like a regular push saws would. This allows for some extremely thin kerfs to be used. I have 2 japanese Kataba saws and one dazuki. I love them and use them constantly. They would work for this case but a bandsaw is much easier if one is available to you.

Well thanks gents! That's a ton of great info. As it turns out I have a neighbor that has a bandsaw and is more than willing to slice my stock for me. Don't know why I didn't think of that earlier (old age, decrepitude, proximity of legal weed... who knows). Anyway, you've convinced me that I should probably get a bandsaw at some point. ...and I JUST finished creating a workshop in my garage (100% filled now). So I guess something has to go already to make room for it - but that's the way it goes with this.

Thanks for the great info on bandsaws, Japanese saws, and other things I can use.

Mike

I make musical instruments professionaly.
for inspiration you can youtube the techniques used to resaw musical instrument sides (guitars, lutes, violins etc...) mostly done with a bandsaw and a fence.

If you have large stock of exotic hardwoods a bandsaw will be the way to go. However, one must know how to setup the bandsaw very well in order to reduce the amount of waste. If you have access to a table saw it is also good given the thin kerf blades you can get for them leave a beter finish than a bandsaw and less work will be required to remove the saw marks. Often times though the bandsaw cuts a thiner kerf, more material is lost removing the saw marks and it is equivalent to a table saw which also has the advantage of cutting straighter. now for thin stuff we are dealing with here, a band saw is 10000 times safer and so thats the main reason I favor it.

Ultimately, when I am making razor scales I'll only use handtools as much as I can. +1 on the recomendation on japanese handsaws that work on the pull. If your stock is smaller size or you can cut to size with a handsaw (6"x2"x2") then you can build yourself a saw guide using a scrap peice of wood that ensures you saw is traveling deadstraight, takes the guess work out of that. just insert your blank into your jig/guide you make and use it to guide your saw back and forth to cut slices as thin as you want and peacfully while listening to the birds chirping.

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Originally Posted by samircanada

If you have access to a table saw it is also good given the thin kerf blades you can get for them leave a beter finish than a bandsaw and less work will be required to remove the saw marks. Often times though the bandsaw cuts a thiner kerf, more material is lost removing the saw marks and it is equivalent to a table saw which also has the advantage of cutting straighter. now for thin stuff we are dealing with here, a band saw is 10000 times safer and so thats the main reason I favor it.

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LOL I tried to explain this once about 3 years ago, but eventually gave up and continued cutting blanks with a Thin Kerf Table saw blade..

I have a very special piece of hardware to make it safer too :p A piece of 2x6 Pine and a double sided piece of tape :rofl2: You could also invest in a reverse fence

I have a properly set up Bandsaw too but I can cut blanks way faster and way more accurately with the table saw...

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Originally Posted by Geezer

I agree with Pix, I use a mag base that I can move and lock down on the table so I can slice some slightly bent stock and blocks. Horn slabs are often bent a bit~
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...me/magbase.jpg
~Richard

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Exactly what I do. I might think the same technique could work for a scroll saw, but it would certainly be using the saw in a way it wasn't designed to be used. Resawing stock into thin slabs is the domain on the bandsaw.

My question is in regards to the next step... The final thinning.

So I resaw a pair of thin slabs so they are bookmatched. But I want to thin them down further and remove any blade scrub. Do most of you do the thinning by hand with a plane, hand held belt sander or bench sander? That leaves a fair amount of work to make sure they are the same thickness.

I've been trying to think of a way to run them through a surface planer to be sure the thickness is the same. Possibly adhere them to a larger piece as a carrier block and pass the whole thing through the planer? Am I trying to over engineer this? I know there is something to be said for hand work, but I have the tools and could surface plane a dozen slabs down to under .1 in the time it takes to hand sand just one.

+++++band saw

I have three but the one I use most is a $130 saw. bands are cheep.
here is a link:9 in. Bench Top Band Saw
This thing is a work horse. It forgives me if I leave it be for months. I clean the rubber on the wheels with a paper towel and my finger nail. I rotate the blade manually and pinch with 220grit sand paper and off I go. I can mill rough barn timber with it. My last set of scales were ash and I also cut camel bone for wedges (smells like a dentist office on steroids after a root canal when cutting bone).

So invest in a band saw you will be glade you did!!!!!

sort of spendy,but this tool takes all the the pain out of making precsion slabs.
STEWMAC.COM : Luthiers Friend Sanding Station

After slabbing plates off, I have found that to cut the outlines with minimum chipping it helps to place a thin flat ( 1/8th inch or so) board or plastic sheet on the table and saw to the middle of it. That board when stuck down will support the material being cut all the way to the blade. That always has reduced chipping and breakage while sawing for me.
The reason being that the hole in the table the blade goes through is too large and the vibration of the saw will make a poor cut in brittle materials.
Cheers
~Richard

If I am thinning blanks after sawing and they have saw lines, I usually tape them down on a flat surface and wet sand them through 400 before making the outline cuts. Then i tape them together with double stick tape drill the pin holes and saw the outline with the bandsaw and board on the saw table.
Leaving them taped together makes it easy to sand the outline and contour the scales to perfection and a good match between front and rear scale. A drum sander in the drill press or similar motor tool does the roughing out and a half round file smooths from there and sandpaper completes the job.
~Richard

Hand tools my friend. In my experince its the safest and most rewarding way to go for me.

You can find japanese wooden planes on ebay for very cheap and they perform so well.

Here again is the way to saw off blanks:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...g_Scale_Blanks

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...storation.html

I have done scales start to finish with hand tools and a coping saw works fine for cutting them out. A jewelers' saw is nice to have because the blades are finer for sawing some materials.
~Richard

I'm a woodworker who tinkers with toolmaking. i haven't had to buy anything new for rescaling straights. including wood. I saw with a bandsaw and thickness with a drum sander.

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Originally Posted by Qatsats

Most of us suffer from "restoration equipment acquisition syndrome" and I commend your struggle against this and all tool acquisition addictions. There's a lot of great advice her, but I didn't find this one: ask a friend for help. You may not have the tool but he/she may have. Ask. It's a friendly thing to do.

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The problem I have with producing thin stock in my shop is that I have a thickness planer and no drum sander.
1/8 inch scale stock often does not survive the thickness planer - even with sharp blades, stock double-sided taped to a backer-board, and a light touch on the thickness adjustment.
A basic, table-top Jet drum sander is more than $750.
I am grateful that others can provide beautiful, perfectly smooth/flat stock at a reasonable price.

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Originally Posted by IndependenceRazor1

The problem I have with producing thin stock in my shop is that I have a thickness planer and no drum sander.
1/8 inch scale stock often does not survive the thickness planer - even with sharp blades, stock double-sided taped to a backer-board, and a light touch on the thickness adjustment.
A basic, table-top Jet drum sander is more than $750.
I am grateful that others can provide beautiful, perfectly smooth/flat stock at a reasonable price.

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Maybe another option,they work great, STEWMAC.COM : Luthiers Friend Sanding Station

I'm not sure if I mentioned it in my earlier post, but I have thinned my scales from 1/8" stock by sticking the blank to my fingertips using really strong double sided duct tape. Dangerous but it works.

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Originally Posted by Atchbo

I'm not sure if I mentioned it in my earlier post, but I have thinned my scales from 1/8" stock by sticking the blank to my fingertips using really strong double sided duct tape. Dangerous but it works.

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You could try using the duct tape to stick a long handle to the piece you wish to flatten. Then dry sand it on 80 grit and then 150 and then wet sand it on finer papers. I often use a scraper to finish the surface and contour the scales.
Coarse sanding is quite quick.
~Richard