Thread: Penny for your thoughts - does this need a regrind or a load of elbow grease on a 1k

I bought this razor from an antique store in England and have no idea whether it's any good; it is stamped HALL BRADFORD, with Bradford being a city in West Yorkshire, England. I can't find any on the internet, so I presume it's pretty rare, possibly because they're no good?

It was as blunt as a butter knife originally, so I bought a Dovo Best Quality to tide me over whilst waiting until I have time to do something with it.

I bought the 1k, 5k, 8k, and 12k Naniwa Super Stones as per one of Lynn's youtube videos.

I followed the advice given in the video and a bit of the blade became almost sharp; my gut feeling is that it may require a lot more effort on the 1k stone before moving on to the others. Then again, I'm wondering whether or not it's so bad that it may need a regrind... or it may be so bad that it needs throwing in the garbage bin...

The cutting edge seems to be slightly curved along its length rather than straight, and the polished part of edge of the blade is deeper in the middle. Presumably the blade would have originally been straight with an equal edge depth?

Also, if I press on the heel the toe rises slightly off a flat surface, and if I press on the toe the heel rises (I'm assuming that the Naniwa stones I bought came flat...). Is this really bad?

I like it, so would like to develop some skills in order to restore it, but I don't want to waste time on something that's junk. Can anyone tell from the photos I've attached what it needs in order to be restored? I can add more photos if the angles on these aren't adequate.

Many thanks for any advice provided.

Harry

Welcome to SRP. The grind on that blade is a normal wedge grind found on old Sheffield razors of the period. You might have been better off if you had used one piece of electrical tape on the spine to save it from wear. At least through the bevel setting, then , if you wanted to go sans tape, through the sharpening and finishing, there wouldn't be as much spine wear. It is mostly cosmetic, but something to consider. That is a 'good' razor I'll bet. I haven't heard of the maker, but there were many back then. Someone will be along with more info.

As to the blade not being flat on the hone from end to end. Also normal for that grind. Go to the SRP library and see the rolling x Rolling X stroke - Straight Razor Place Library

Also check out this PDF 1961 barber manual devoted to stropping and honing. Note the illustration showing a slight smile on a blade is preferable, and how to keep it.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...t_-_Honing.pdf

Ok, firstly I definitely think this is salvageable so no worries there!

There are a couple of things to consider though:

1) Your Naniwa stones won't be flat out of the box, I have the exact same set (except I have a 3k instead of 5k) and to get them flat you need to get them wet as they soak up a lot of water, and then lap them flat on a DMT or some sort of known flat abrasive surface.
2) The 1k Naniwa is a great bevel setter but it is one of the softer stones so it will tend to wear faster than say a Chosera or Shapton 1k. This can make bevel setting a butter knife edge quite time consuming and trickier! It can be done, but IME it's harder on that stone compared to others. The blade also looks to be a heavier gring, further compounding this issue. The edge you're aiming for off a 1k is being able to shave arm hair at skin level. If you can't do that, stay on the 1k.
3) There's a fair amount of spine wear on this blade so I personally would stick a layer (or even two) of electrical tape on the spine. This will do two things; One, prevent further spine wear while you bevel set, and two, alter the edge geometry back to more like when the razor was new. This should hopefully speed up the bevel setting process.
4) There's also a bit of a smile to that edge so you'll need to have a good circle and rolling X technique to ensure you get good coverage all the way along the edge.

Is this your first attempt at honing?

The reason I ask is that there are a fair few things about this blade that are going to make it tricky to get right, I'd be much more inclined to start with a hollow ground blade that's in reasonable nick rather than an older wedge type blade with spine wear and a smile for your first go..!

Where are you based? There might be someone in your area who can walk you through it one on one. I'm just south of London myself and am happy to help if you're nearby!

Good luck with it!

Yes,

I would say so, some massive bevel action going on there, not to mention spine ware.
Check out the geometry to see if its a viable shaver. Need to find someone with a belt grinder and right size contact wheel and confident with grinding a smiler.

Basically what Jimmy said. I would add not to presume any hones arrive flat. It is always good to lap them to be sure. A lot of the time if the spine has a slight curve then the blade may have followed that curve originally. Not all straight razor blades are straight. For me if the edge does not cut arm hair easily all along the edge off the 1K hone there is no sense going to the higher grits, the bevel is not completely set. Stay on the 1K till it does. You have a bit of a toughie on your hands as a first honing subject but you will learn a lot from it when you do get it honed up. Go slow and ask more questions as they arise. I don't know the maker but it has the looks of a good quality Sheffie to me. Lastly, welcome to the forum and good luck with your honing.

Bob

Hi Guys.
Thanks for the welcomes, reassurance, and magnificent advice & information.

I'm based in Norwich, Norfolk, UK, so if there's anyone around here that knows what they're doing it would be great to meet up.

You're right in thinking that this is my first attempt at honing and it seems that I may have done more harm than good - that spine wear may have come from me (I can't remember whether it was there or not before I tried to hone it).

I will:
Use some electrical tape in future.
Try to reverse the "curve" (mine is like Fig. 20 rather than Fig. 19 in the 1961 Barber Manual PDF).
Attempt to master the rolling X stroke to maintain the smile properly.
Buy a different 1k for bevel setting.
Aim to cut arm hair at their bases using the 1k before moving up grit.

Three questions:
1. Is the second thing I said I will do (reverse the curve) going to be ridiculously difficult?

2. For lapping the stones I bought something called the Naniwa Artificial Nagura Stone (Naniwa Nagura stone | knivesandtools.co.uk) - will this work for lapping or is it just for creating a slurry? If I need something different, is this a good one to go for something from this webpage:
DMT Dia-Sharp | Continuous Diamond Bench Stones > Buy Online
maybe this one:
DMT D8C Dia-Sharp Bench Stone - 8 Inch (Coarse)

3. What is the scientific rationale for diagonal honing? I would have thought that honing a three inch blade straight down a three inch wide honing stone would provide for a better cutting edge...

Thanks again!

Harry

Harry, rather than reversing the curve, just go with it. That curve was how the blade was made. See the Sheffield razors in the razor clubs forum for many like it.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor-clubs/

So maintain the curve that is there. No worries about the hone wear showing. Just throw some tape on it and proceed with working on setting the bevel. Might be best to wait and see if anyone around your neck of the woods can meet up though.

The DMT D8C is the go to bevel setter for many of us. The Atoma 1200 is actually somewhat better, but it costs 3 times as much. Whether it is 3 times better is arguable.

Harry

You might want to try 2 layers of electrical tape and see if that reduces the width of the bevel a bit. I would leave the smile in the blade and learn to hone it. The dotted line in fig 19 shows a smile which you razor has and fig 20 shows a frown which you definitely don't want. There is nothing wrong with a 1K Naniwa for bevel setting, I use one for that. You should not need another 1K hone.

I believe the DMT D8C Course/325 is what you want for lapping the hones. You can search that on the Hones sub forum for more info. The Nagura stone is for raising a slurry I believe not owning one.

Heel forward honing helps keep the stabilizers off the hone and also allows you to do a rolling swooping X stroke for razors that have a smile/warp/twist to them.

Bob

Thanks Bob & Jimmy.

I will use 2 pieces of electrical tape and the 1k I already have.

You have made me realise that I had gotten mixed up - I thought that Fig. 19 & 20 were referring to the shape of the bevel edge/polished part along the blade, rather than the curve of the blade.

So, this razor has a smile curve along its long axis, and the edge bevel (as opposed to the blade bevel) along its short axis is of a greater magnitude half way along the long axis, and of a lesser magnitude at the heel and toe. Precise?

Many thanks again,

Harry

Originally Posted by RadHarry

Thanks Bob & Jimmy.

So, this razor has a smile curve along its long axis, and the edge bevel (as opposed to the blade bevel) along its short axis is of a greater magnitude half way along the long axis, and of a lesser magnitude at the heel and toe. Precise?

Many thanks again,

Harry

You are welcome

The last bit confused me, but at my advanced age that seems to be happening more and more. . Theoretically, and theory is a fine thing, you should be able to hone a smiling blade with the bevel the same width all along the smile. Then reality steps in and you have to contend with imperfections in the razor that make that difficult or impossible to accomplish easily. Anyway a bevel of varying widths is a bit ugly but does not mean it won't take a fine edge and shave well.

Bob