Thread: Coloring Discolored Horn Scales

Hi All,

A quick question. We all know that black horn scales fade and lose some of their color over time; I was wondering if it is possible to re-blacken them? What would you use to do it - stain, ink, shoe polish? Or is it not possible?
Forgive my photography, here's a picture of the kind of discolouration I'm talking about.

Thanks for your help.

Maybe you should start with giving it a long soak in neats foot oil and a good sand n' polish.

Voidmonster's been experimenting a bit with using hair dye to restore the patches on mock turtle shell(dyed horn), may be something to consider.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...rn-scales.html

I did use black leather dye on one set of old horn scales and they turned out OK. I would not try it on the razor pictured though without trying it on some scrap old horn scales in similar condition first. Only after trying other ways like a Neats Foot oil soak and a good sanding and polish first though. In other words try at your own risk.

Bob

The scales would not have had that kind of woodgrain fuzzy effect when new - they would have been highly polished by sanding them with a compound made from oil to which a fine abrasive was added, like powdered tripoli.

Obviously, this was for finishing of the scales after they had been shaped, regularised and smoothed, but you can still remove a lot of the dull raised fibre-like top with very fine (type 0000) wire wool, and then immerse the scales in neatsfoot oil for a day or two, then blot all oily residue off and then finely polish - on a polishing machine is best with a polishing soap like tripoli or one that is fine cutting and polishing, like white bar, or any of the bars intended for re-finishing plastic.

This usually makes the horn glass-like and considerably darker. The old black finishes involved using silver nitrate and other noxious chemicals, so Voidmonsters alternative technique of using hair dye may be better suited for you if they still aren't dark enough.

Regards,
Neil

I sand mine with 1500 grit wet sand paper, soak in danish oil and polish with metal polish.

First thing that comes to mind is why would you do that. I have been working hard to get my new scales to look like that. I have had some very limited success. On my next attempt to remove color I am going to use a vacuum pot, I suspect if you wanted it to work well on putting the color back you would also need a vacuum pot and hair dye. The hair bleach does not penetrate very deep and has not given me that depth of discoloration. I think you will find the same with putting dye on the surface. You should try it and see.

Originally Posted by RezDog

First thing that comes to mind is why would you do that. I have been working hard to get my new scales to look like that. I have had some very limited success. On my next attempt to remove color I am going to use a vacuum pot, I suspect if you wanted it to work well on putting the color back you would also need a vacuum pot and hair dye. The hair bleach does not penetrate very deep and has not given me that depth of discoloration. I think you will find the same with putting dye on the surface. You should try it and see.

Shaun - horn that has been dyed and cured can only ever take a thin surface coating. During the original dying the horn was once again boiled (ie softened) to fill its micro-pores with water once again, then put in the dye bath. Water in the micro-pores allowed the dye to permeate much more.

However, if left the water would evaporate taking the dye out of the horn and depositing it on the surface. To prevent this it was cured - or 'sweated' in hot steam, which sealed the dye in.

So in order to get a fuller dye penetration you would have to take the blade out, boil the horn (this is a lengthy process - maybe an hour or more), soak it in the dye bath, blot it and steam it, place it between boards or steel to make sure it did not warp and then re-attach the blade. Far too lengthy and dangerous in my opinion.

However, if silver nitrate was used (say an 18% solution) and painted on under dark-room conditions, this would turn a very rich black/brown on exposure to sunlight. It has died my skin and fingernails on many occasions (it dyes anything organic black) - you cannot get it out, you just have to let it grow out.

Regards,
Neil

I couldn't believe the difference it made when I soaked old scales in neets foot oil. From tan/brown and dry and flaky to dark black and healthy looking. I then sanded and buffed them. Again I was amazed at what a three - four day soak in oil does.

Hi Guys,
Thank you all for your replies. I've been thinking about this for over a year, lol, so I certainly didn't rush into it. I keep the blade in mostly original condition, so I didn't want to have shiny-new looking scales, which the long soak would impart.
So I tried our old friend the shoe polish. A light sand from 400-1200, washings in between, then a good application of kiwi shoe polish, followed by a light soak in Viol, which is a cleaner/polisher/worm preventative solution mainly for wooden instruments. I should probably apply a coat of ren wax, to seal it a bit more but I personally don't like it that much. (I used viol only cause I had some lying around and thought I'd try it.)
I think it did a pretty nice job; a nice healthy matt finish. I doubt it's as permanent as hair dye, but hasn't seemed to come off on a test wash and towel dry.
Anyway, just a simple and humble effort.

I make 18th/19th century powder horns with scrimshaw. Most horners use potassium permanganate to dye horn. The more coats you apply over time, the darker it will become. It will fade in sunlight over time, but you can re-apply. It works amazing on anything containing protein. DO NOT GET IT ON YOUR HANDS OR FINGERNAILS. It takes a lot of time to get it off. You can buy it at ACE hardware and other hardware stores (or they can order it). It's not cheap, mostly because of the quantity you have to buy. Apparently it can be used to sterilize water. Some vendors who cater to re-enactors will a product called "Old Bones", which is Potassium Permanganate. Hope this helps.

Chris