Thread: Rust Prevention

Howdy!

Well, Im not sure if this is the right forum, I assume it is. So here it gos.. Please forgive me if this is an old subject (tried to check).

Ive been around the ocean my whole life and working on boats and otherwise, and rust/corrosion is always an ever present enemy. And so with straight razors, but with the little precautions we are able to keep it at bay, atleast visually. Perhaps on a micro-level it helps to cause blades to dull quicker? I know thats the case with standard razors and so if you dry them with a hair drier, then those expensive Mach 2 Million Supa Dupa razors better than the other five you just saw on previous commercials (but THIS one vibrates!) will last longer... So I try to dry my blades well.
Anyway on boats we use "Sacrificial Zinc Anodes" at various places inside and out of the boat. I think many of you know of this, how it works, but in case not basically (very basically because it can be complex with electrical measurements and math involved) the Zinc Anodes are sacrificed for the integrity of the metal that is being protected.
So a while back I started putting zinc washers at the pivot points of my straight razors. And Ive always wondered if my perception that it has been working is all in my head... So tonight I have started a test:
Two razors. One with zinc washers attached. One without. And then I misted them and let them sit, and will continue misting everyday to test the ability of the zinc anodes... Ill be adding a couple more razors with the same set up to help with control.
Anyway, what do you think? Is this already known and been done? Are there factors of scientific method Im missing? Any ideas would be great.
Thanks,
M

Are the razors identical?

If you are putting the washers "at the pivot points," aren't the scales preventing contact with the tang?

Since the concern is with microscopic corrosion at the edge, why wouldn't you put the washer nearer to the edge, like at the spine, rather than at the pivot?

Are you misting with water or salt water?

Why mist at all? If you are concerned about ocean air rusting razors then why not expose them to ocean air?

This will be an interesting experiment.

I thought that rust, on steel, was caused by tiny galvanic cells between microscopic particles of carbon, and the surrounding iron. If that's right, the zinc washer isn't going to do much.

Try it out, see what happens, report back.

. Charles (until recently, the owner of a 36-foot sailboat with lots of salt-water miles).

PS -- I should take a look at my bookshelf. There's something like "Corrosion for Mariners" there -- it might have an answer.

The razors are not identical so I'm adding two tomorrow that are. I was under the impression that the pivot point includes between the scales and the tang. Perhaps I have my terminology wrong.. what are the washers between the scales and tang called?
Rust, if I'm not mistaken is a transfer of electrons. The zinc is not royal at all, it gives its electrons freely so that the other metal does not. On a boat, engine and many other metal structures protected by sacrificial zinc anodes, the electrons travel quite far (relatively). But how far on a razor? I'm wondering the same.
Salt water is not necessary, this is a test for what most razors come in contact with. Fresh water.
Zinc is indeed used to prevent corrosion. But on a razor? Who knows, we will see. So far it seems to work for my razors that have it, and the ones in the case under the same conditions that don't I've noticed have some rusting.
Different razors rust differently, so that will definitely need to be accounted for. This question about zinc has been itching my curiosity for a while so I'm finally testing it.
Thanks for the replies I really appreciate the feedback.

Okay

So the experiment continues and Ive found some new good info..
I checked the blades today and found that the rust formation, though slight on both, is the same on both so far... EXCEPT for the point where the zinc washers contact the tang of the razor that has them on it! This is great news! The razor without the zinc washers has rust everywhere the water drops landed. The one WITH zinc washers shows a small white build up where the washers contact the tang.
This is consistent with what I know about cathodic protection provided by sacrificial zinc anodes. At the point of contact, and in the right conditions extending further often several millimeters or in the case of a salt water environment many times that, a precipitate is formed (a galvanic cell) and the steel (a more noble metal) is protected.
So obviously these razors are not going to be submerged in salt water giving the electrical boost required for long range donation of electrons... And several millimeters hardly extends protection out to the tang stamp... BUT, as we have all seen the inner pivot point washers are often a point of corrosion.
Conclusion:
The inner washers at the pivot point would best be of a synthetic material that will not damage the tang as stainless washers WILL do over time because stainless steel is more noble than carbon steel.. OR the washers need to be of a metal that is LESS noble than carbon steel.
Those metals are few. Three of them are in descending order of royalty Aluminium, Zinc, and Magnesium. I have not read as to why but know that zinc is more often the choice. So Zinc washers seem to be a better choice than the brass and stainless that is most often used.
It may seem counter-intuitive because stainless doesnt rust... but think of it this way: stainless will keep "itself" from rusting and also rip material from the tang.
Anyway this seems to be a beneficial experiment because before this I didnt know for sure and would have put stainless or brass between the tang and scales without a thought except for the blades I have installed zinc previously just for the heck of it. But now that I know better I think Ill be putting it on all of them.
I really hope this helps someone or you find it remotely interesting, hehehe Im feeling like a bit of a geek now perhaps over thinking things. But if one were so inclined... It is perhaps another i that can be dotted or if I were so bold to suggest... another t to be crossed??? lol
Okay Im gonna try to upload some picks of the restore I did today.. to the bat cave!

Very interesting indeed but installing zinc washers that are meant to sacrificially corrode, even on a minute scale, has some problems. Firstly, corrosion. Over time the washers will change shape, a very small amount but still change. Second, zinc oxide. Not as hard as iron or chromium, but still a grit that is going to wear everything it upbraids against.
I still see regular maintenance as the best choice. Drying and lubrication. If you're in a more challenging atmosphere, add some Tuf Glide:
"Sentry Solution's concept is simple - dirt will not stick to equipment lubricated with a dry film and metal surfaces protected by a dry micro-bonded shield will not corrode!"

Yes, it is/was an interesting experiment. As it applies only to the pivot area don't overlook the cheapest/simplest solution to rust at the pivot area, don't get it wet in the first place. Never understood why the pivot area should become wet when shaving even when rinsing the blade under a running faucet.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Yes, . Never understood why the pivot area should become wet when shaving even when rinsing the blade under a running faucet.

Bob

Yep, I've wondered the same. While shaving/rinsing blade, I take great care to keep my fingers that are holding tang dry so as to not slip.. this care also keeps the pivot dry.
The benefits of zinc washers would perhaps be only truly enjoyed by those in environments or situations of which such care is not possible and or other factors like serious humidity apply..
In such situations I think now that I would treat it as part the standard upkeep... Installation of zinc washers would be done so utilizing a hex head machine screw assembly so that the pivot could be serviced as often as needed.
I wouldn't use standard rivets with if using zinc washer/anodes because it would prevent such upkeep.
But yes. You and Hart have great points: prevention and upkeep. Like just being careful, or the use of Tuf Glide. For after all is said and done perhaps the best ideas.
Perhaps if one wishes to do everything possible and really geek-out, then pivot-washer/anodes provide another viable option.

Originally Posted by Hart

...Over time the washers will change shape, a very small amount but still change. Second, zinc oxide. Not as hard as iron or chromium, but still a grit that is going to wear everything it upbraids against. ....!"[/URL]

This is a really good point. Made me think about how the hex head machine screws would be necessary for servicing. Thanks for that
Over time it indeed would be a factor, as iron oxide has the same effect. The difference is that no material would be pulled from the tang, as is the case with using more royal metals as pivot washers. And with the same care outlined above, the tang would be that much more protected. Zinc does not just recklessly rust away, it simply lends itself to the protection of other metals. The loosening of pivots, abrasion, it happens with any corrosion. This is just added protection..
Thanks so much for the replies! You have helped me understand it all better because I had not taken all into account..

If the environment is that bad I think the blade, especially the edge, would suffer rusting sooner than the tang at the pivot. That said, you are right that sacrificial washers might be part of total prevention package but still of secondary importance to keeping the blade/edge in good condition. Without a decent blade/edge you won't be getting much of a shave.

Bob