WIP: W.G. Wilton

Found this this bad boy while participating in some RAD. In my quest for some info on the cutler, I found a thread from Glen:
https://straightrazorpalace.com/work...e-chopper.html

Well the bar has been set.

My plan for this is honey horn scales and modeled loosely off of scales from a WB fbu. Planning on a brass wedge with some file work, assuming I can get the weight high enough to balance the blade.

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Had to split the scales off the blade, looks like who ever put those scales on it used nails and peened them. Lots of rust on them and subsequently the pivot area on the razor.

A little work on the dmt 1200 to see what’s happening with the bevels and geometry. Someone put a frown in the bladeon the heel side, though not too bad. There is a small chip next to the heel as well.

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Hopefully I caught the shiny spots well enough to see. It felt like I’ll need some strategically placed tape as the razor is rocking pretty bad on one side, but if the bevels are really that small I don’t see a problem once I get the whole blade smiling again.

Anyways, I’ll update this thread at each step. I’m open to input too, so any opinions are welcome, they only thing decided for sure is the scale material, the finish on the blade I think would look best with a satin or possibly slightly higher sheen.

Gasman had a good question on another thread I had started about this razor.

I had stated I’ll make a wheel for sanding this blade out.

I’ve never tried this before as I’ve only sanded by hand with sandpaper wrapped around various radiused pieces of wood. The new plan is to turn a wheel that matches the hollow grind on the blade and glue some sandpaper to it, or possibly cut some kerfs in it and use wedges to attach it to the wheel so I’m not fighting glue. As I go along I’ll document whatever I try, for better or worse. Planning on replacing the sandpaper with leather and going to buffing pastes, to achieve whatever finish I’m looking for. Chances are I’ll buff it to a mirror finish then go backwards from there so I don’t get any errant scratches in the finish. Who knows, we’ll see.

I’m also in the middle of remodeling house so this may take a while. I’m sick of the house right now and need a break, this seems like a good excuse.

I think challenge one with the wheel system is going to be having no vibration and good speed control. I have seen guys state that they have used lathes at low speed with sanding drums that take flat paper. If you can keep the speed very low it will reduce the risk of screwing up the blade and reduce vibration issues.

I can get mine down to 100rpm. Depending on wheel circumference though the fpm may be high. I may use a cork backer to “soften” it a little. We’ll see and learn together.

Turning it on the lathe should give me a surface that is nice a true, I think a slight crown in it should help too. I have some blades around I can practice with too, I don’t want to launch this one into space or impale myself.

I agree with the lathe. Im afraid any other turning machine might be a bit rough besides a real belt grinder. Im enterested in this so i will be watching. I keep looking at belt grinders but they are zpendy. Making my own like Rez is doing is a possibility but not right now.

I like the idea of turning your own grinding wheel on a lathe.
I've wanted to do this but never had a lathe. If someone is willing to turn some wheels ...?
A nice belt grinder has always been on the list but is too $pendy for me.
Working those pits out with a rigid wheel as to not dig them out has always been on my mind since discovering the limitations of the soft wheels with greaseless...
I have screwed up a couple blades before I realized that, so I switched to hand sanding on expensive blades but it takes so dang long!
Looking forward to seeing your process, and the wheels you make!

Would love a belt grinder, but that’s not in the financial cards. The grinder itself is one thing but then all the wheels for various grinds, gets real expensive real fast. I always wanted to make my own razors and knives but unless I can make money with a tool or win the lottery I can’t justify the cost.

Im with ya!

My thought is that the rust and pitting at the bevel have to go, thought the rest of it is pretty cool looking. A little piece of pure copper will get the rust out of the pitting so can you use oil to prevent further rust.

I love your idea of the honey colored horn scales. They'll be the cats meow.

Well finally got my act together. Thanks to gasman and his generous heart for sending me some greaseless to play with.

I used some dividers and made a bunch of circles until one looked like it fit the original grind. I ended up at 12.5” for diameter. I have a bunch of 3/4” mdf laying around so I cut a couple circles out a little oversized so I could turn them to the correct diameter on my lathe. I mounted the round to a plate and spun it up. Seemed to fit the razors hollows pretty well so I went with it. Unfortunately it was a little small, I think 13” may have been the magic number but just went with the 12.5”.
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The greaseless is a learning experience, I think I wasted a goodly amount of time figuring it out. At first I wasn’t applying it with wheel going fast enough nor was I pressing hard enough to load it properly. I’ve been cooling of the razor with bucket of water but the water reconstitutes the greaseless making it stick to the blade and not cut for a darn. Once I got an old t shirt and dried off the razor before grinding again all was well. The other problem I had was not letting the greaseless set up long enough before grinding. Anyways I finally got pretty well dialed in after an hour of chasing my tail.

I ran the lathe around 350 rpm for the first hour or so (about 1100 fpm), and ended up at around 800 rpm (around 2400 sfpm) after I got comfortable that I wasn’t going roach the blade.

Jerry sent me some 240 grit, 400 grit, and 600 grit. With the 240 it’s pretty slow going. I’ll definitely be ordering some greaseless as this experiment has gone better than I had expected, though in hindsight I don’t see why i didn’t think it would work.

As seen in the photos there’s a fair bit of pitting, and I have no intention of removing it all, my biggest concern is correcting the uneven bevels if only for my amusement as they won’t effect the shave.

Before I get a bunch of crap for grinding away on this thing, someone had done a little grinder work on it before I even got ahold of it. My intention is to try and match the finish of some of my Sheffield wedges with original finish still on them, we’ll see how that goes, I need to get some leather for that, I would think though I think I’ll try to use an mdf wheel first.

I’ll keep updating as I go and try and get better at taking a bunch of pictures as I tend to get on a roll and forget.

I’m close on one side of the blade and have a ways to go on the other. Once I’m done with the initial grinding I expect things to really start moving along.
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Got a little further, looks way better in person than photos would suggest.
240 grit
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400 grit
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600 grit
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I also decided to try using emery buffing compound on the mdf wheel, my initial thoughts were that it wasn’t going to work but it seems to be very similar to using a buffing wheel, too much compound and it just gets all over the thing you’re trying to buff instead of cutting.

Glad to help with sending you some compound. Just be careful not to ruin that blade. Ive never treid to go as far as you are. Hand sanding has to be done at some point. Good luck.

Here’s a short video, pretty much all I was doing the entire time so isn’t much more than what the video shows.

https://youtu.be/taK0FqBKruc

That was the whole idea, Jerry, do away with hand sanding. Definitely easier not blowing the lines with my setup but also, as you stated, not screwing up my temper. It’s pretty amazing, at least with this blade, the wheel radius fits all the facets on the blade, the hardest part is getting taper below the stamped part of the tang, it follows the same angle as the blade grind but I assume was accomplished way earlier in the initial grinding and not towards the end. It’s been very interesting going through this. I’m contemplating getting some lower grits and then trying to get the last little flat area right below the hone wear.

Going through the grits takes no time at all, it’s just where you initially start, once you get everything straightened out and all the grind lines nice and consistent it’s all down hill. Actually really reminds me of setting a bevel, once you get it taken care of everything thing else is just polishing.

Oh. I have done the same thing. Only to have liked it better before I began.
Grease-less compounds can do that.

Pretty soon, you are grinding at Your razor and not Wilton's.
Crotchety old me. Better you than me, me.

I am lazy, so I like to put a nice shaving bevel and do the minimum anymore.
Sticking with what it was helps with what it will be.

Condition allowing.

That was the thing and why I chose this blade to do it on, someone had done some custom work to it already with what looked like a 46 grit grinding wheel. Seemed like a good prospect to experiment.

Well get it on. I bought all those compounds years ago.
Given a lot of it away. I use the 600 a lot. Go up to 400 at times.
Some have the touch with it. I don't.

I use it every now n then. Quite touchy stuff, but my best success came with doing circles with the dremmel, it minimizes the wavey return. But your still left with doing some sanding to true it up. So I'll keep hand sanding, I'm in no hurry, got time to do it right...just not twice.

Something I've been working on for JP5. (Josh )

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Actually sent for evaluation, and to take down. But after unpinning and cleaning, I couldn't help myself, and CAed the crack on the show side,and CAed the broken pieces on the other, then laminated two layers of 3/4 oz. fiberglass to each scale. Once cured all that was needed was to carefully remove the excess flash around the edges.

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Excellent save, Bruv.

You da MAN! :tu

Working on scales, can’t make a decision, any opinions?

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#5 is a direct copy from a WB FBO, doesn’t seem right proportionally to me.

#8 Is the one I’m leaning towards, seems about right, with a lead wedge and horn scales I should be able to get it to balance really good too.

The blade is going into some honey horn so you will be able to see it when it’s closed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by outback

I use it every now n then. Quite touchy stuff, but my best success came with doing circles with the dremmel, it minimizes the wavey return. But your still left with doing some sanding to true it up. So I'll keep hand sanding, I'm in no hurry, got time to do it right...just not twice.

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I’m not sure how people use it on a buffing wheel, always seems every line is blown by the time they’re done. Nothing worse than a vintage with all rounded off corners.

Wedge of #1, pivot of #8.
That's my vote.
:)
Thank you for undertaking this project with the wheels, I've always wanted to do it. Any pics of the wheels loaded up? Trying to get a better grasp on it..
Looking good!

3 and 8. It’s unlikely we will get a consensus with that many options. Make sure the pivot end of the scale is only slightly larger than the tang. Otherwise they are awkward to strop. I think you should start hand sanding on the blade. You can wobble the face of the blade easily as well as round out the lines. A bit of hand sanding should show you where the blade face is low. Once you have it flat you should set the bevel to see how wide and straight the remaining grind is. You can remove metal above the bevel to straighten it out.

I prefer classic shapes for classic razors 3,4 7 &8 . Probably 7 the best.

Have you seen the old threads on old school grinding wheels? They used wooden wheels with leather strips glued on end to the edge of the wheel then glued abrasives to the leather. There are post with photos on the site.

Your method seems to work well, similar to knife paper wheels.

Take a look at some of Mike’s work Wolfpack34, for ideas and inspiration.

Nice work

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeT

Thank you for undertaking this project with the wheels, I've always wanted to do it. Any pics of the wheels loaded up? Trying to get a better grasp on it..
Looking good!

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Here you go!
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I just used some dividers and scratched a circle on some 3/4” mdf then cut it out with a jigsaw, I measured the face plate and made a slightly oversized circle from the same point I drew the wheel from then lined up the faceplate as well as possible and mounted it with screws, then that assembly just threads on to my headstock. I tried the face with a scraper chisel and the edges as well given there was a slight wobble as well. I think if I do this in the future I’ll use 1” mdf as it would be nice to have a little more real estate. I also gave the face just the slightest crown, you can’t tell it’s there unless you put a straight edge on it.

As far as using the greaseless I just loaded it and then hit it with a heat gun for 10 seconds and was able to go right back to grinding. The wheel runs way cooler with fresh compound on it.

Luckily the ways for the tailsstock are a few inches short otherwise the widest wheel I could make would have been 12”. I should be able to go up to 15.5” comfortably. What I like about the set up is the ability to do regrinds of big wedges. Look into how much a 12”-14” contact wheel costs for a belt grinder, the whole setup plus the cost of the lathe would buy me one 12” contact wheel and a box kleenex for the tears I’d shed just to try and regrind this $15 blade.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

I usually pin my razors then polish the washers afterward. The problem is that you get dark ring of wax from the buffing compound right around the edge of the washer where it meets the scales, a real pita to clean it. The honey horn presents more of a problem given how light in color it is, so I can up with a solution:

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I cut some 1/16” pin material about 1 1/4” and peened one end then cut some 1/16” id brass tubing drop the washer onto the peened end then butt the tube into the back of the washer and chucked it into a drill then went to the buffer. You could do the same thing but by hand, some polish on a rag would also have the same effect.

I polished the washer with emery then with tripoli which is my preference for horn, has a nice glow without getting offensive. Stamped out my own washers, was thinking about bullseye washers but I don’t want to take the focus away from the blade in the scales.

Went back to the greaseless to clean up some lines. I dropped back from the 600 grit to 400 grit as it was too shiny after the emery loaded wheel. I tried doing a little work on the buffer just to see what it would do and was pretty unhappy with it. Ended up with 400 grit then just two passes on each hollow with the emery loaded wheel.

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I may go back and tweak the finish after I get the scales done. I ended up not trying to match a finish from a similar era razor.

Sorry ,John. I was meaning to post JP5s, in a separate thread.

Forgot where I was..:rofl2:

Now, if a mod would please put this in the " What are you working on" thread of the workshop, I'd greatly appreciate it.

No problem, Mike.

Nice job on the scales, btw.

Looking much smoother.
So let me get this....You are loading greaseless on a MDF wheel?

Yes sir, poor mans grinding wheel. I wouldn’t dare do this on a hollow grind, though I’ll probably try on an already broken blade.

I get a few passes on the wheel then need to dip the blade or wrap it in a damp rag (too much water on the greaseless reconstitutes it, rubs onto the blade, and increases friction. It’s not as terrible as it sounds though.

Definitely a learning curve and some kinks to work out. I thought about leather wrapped wheels but then you probably couldn’t grind the blade edge leading, which I found is far easier to present the hollow parallel to the face of the wheel.

The reason the first go around sucked was because I had high spots on the wheel where more greaseless deposited in some areas on the wheel causing a speed bump and in turn caused low spots in the grind. What I found was to just deal with them until I was almost where I wanted it for a given grit then used the back of a sawzall blade and knocked the high spots of greaseless off then did as many passes as I needed to get the hollows flat and grinding lines consistent.

The 240 grit is surprisingly aggressive. Had I experience with this setup prior to starting the project I would have probably started with 240 and possibly dropped down to 180.

One thing is to keep the wheel freshly loaded and fully dried from loading the greaseless. A heat gun greatly reduced the standing around time, about 10 seconds of full blast heat gun on a spinning wheel. Really cuts down on heat build up.

I need to try some 80 grit, I’m thinking I’ll be able to possibly make an rso by stock removal.

A cool idea. I wonder if that black greaseless 'glue' would be of any help?
I had learned the harder the wheel, the better. Never thought about wood or wood product.
Looks like you are on the right track.

I want to try the glue, hoping it will help the greaseless go on more evenly.

If you had mentioned it I could have sent that too. Oh Well. :)

It works great in other things. Bound to help?
I reckon I could send some glue-stuff, if needed! :D

No need, but thank you for the offer, I have plans on making an order from Caswell’s in the near future.

Seems anything you buy is way too much stuff~! :rofl2:
Let me know. ;)

Guys using traditional belt grinders say to drop ver low to remove material and then come back up to remove the marks. All major shaping is done on very low grit belts. 60 and 80 are numbers I’ve heard them talking about and times when 30 is used. So by that logic if you are essentially grinding and using the greaseless compound as an abrasive, then very low grit for stock removal makes sense. Also the high grits generate a ton of heat.