Replacing scales

I realise my query has probably been answered many times already in the Forum but as a newcomer, and with a welter of information to trawl through, I wonder if someone can point me to the appropriate thread/s that might help me.
I recently bought a number of old razors on EBay and a few of them need a serious tidy-up. A couple have broken or damaged scales and being a long-time tinkerer I'm inclined to want to try and replace them (the scales). I'm assuming that it's not sacrilege to perform this refurbishment of 'low cost' vintage razor.
My questions are -
1. Where is the best place to look for replacement scales. And, apart from size and sympathetic matching are there any other things to be aware of?
2. How is the 'pivot' pin usually removed? (Is it punched?)
3. Where do you buy new pins? And how are they installed.

If a video exists, showing all this I'd be grateful to learn of it.

Thanks.

Okay I moved this thread to the "Workshop"

At the top of this Sub Forum is a stuck thread

https://sharprazorpalace.com/worksho...wers-here.html


This literally has everything in is about Working on SR's

Also YouTube

"gssixgun Pinning Scales"

You will find my channel and tons of info,,,, from there it will have links to Brad's Vids and Charlie's vids among others

Read and watch then ask questions :)


Welcome to SRP

There is also a few other threads.
https://sharprazorpalace.com/worksho...-halves-5.html

https://sharprazorpalace.com/worksho...ml#post1580885

Also there is a ton of information in the what are you working on thread.

If you are uncertain you can post questions in the what are you working on thread and you will get a bunch of answers there.
Your choice of material will get you more specific answers. Horn, bone and ivory are more traditional but there are a lot of guys doing amazing work with wood and then there is all the more modern kirinite, acrylic, acrylester, G-10 and micarts as well.

Depending on what material your scales are made from, there's also information in the "what are you working on" thread, for bone, ivory, and horn. Especially within the last year.

If your looking to buy scales its a bit of luck involved as razors are not all made the same. Most of what you will find here is DIY. Its not hard to do and not a lot of tools are needed. It just takes time and there are a lot more little things to consider that one would think so go slow, read the links and be sure to post your ideas and questions in the workshop. Good luck.

A good place to start is with the scales on the blade, you can trace around them and make a paper template that you can later transfer to your desired scale material. Another good place to start is with a quality razor that’s in good order. Open and close the razor and watch what the scales do, how the wedge is shaped as well as the tang. There is a far bit of geometry that goes into a good set of scales. Once you have an understanding of how they work and why things are shaped the way they are it will make your first few rescales go fairly well.

Keep us updated, we’re here to help.

It's best to leave a razor in the original scales IF...and that's a big if they are still in good condition. As long as they're free of cracks or chips or missing chunks even warping can be taken care of. Often they can be repaired too. It's like the paint job on an old car. It's always better to have the original paint unless it's a rusty clunker already and then it's hard to harm it by improving something that's already ruined.
You can buy blocks of horn, wood, acrylic, faux ivory and all sorts of other blanks for scales on various websites. Do a broad search for straight razor scales or straight razor parts or scale materials. Maggardrazors.com is a good place. They have all sorts of pins and spacers and blanks. Pretty much anything you need to do this yourself. One of my favorites to use is bone but I also use southern live oak snag that I have found in the woods from trees that have been standing dead for probably at least 150 years. I'm sure down under you have other types of beautiful regional hardwoods to choose from also. Just make sure it's stable first. Anything that's been standing dead long enough to look like a skeleton is probably already stable.
Take your time and be methodical, and more than anything have fun with it. Let us know how it goes

One often overlooked dimension is the thickness of the scale, less than 1/8th inch, thinner is better also remember the scales should be under tension at all times, so material comes into play. Thick scales make honing, shaving and especially stropping difficult and ungainly. Add large pins and the razor quickly becomes awkward.

The good news is, un-pinning and pinning is relatively simple and inexpensive, cut your pins from brass or nickel rod. If you buy or make your own scales and want to learn to pin and un-pin, practice pinning tongue depressors to your razor. You can also practice different un-pinning techniques, I drill or file pins depending on if I am trying to save the scales.

If you are replacing broken scales filing off the pin tops with a good file is quick and easy. There are lots of good post and videos on pinning. Pinning with brass is easy, so practice with brass first. You will learn a lot by doing, pinning your razor with tongue depressors a couple times will make the actual pinning much less stressful.

Making scales, horn is probably the easiest to work with simple hand tools, saws, files, scraper and sandpaper. The least expensive wood or plastic, a thrift store clipboard will make several scales, great for making scale templates.

I very often use these escutcheon pins because then you only have to peen one side.

Attachment 308590

It is labor intensive but keeps things uniform if you make the disc for the other side by running a 1/16" bit through the head of one directly in the middle. It's roughly the same size as the pin so it leaves the remainder of the head as a disc. Then run the leftover disc over the point end of the other one and cut it off and peen it over.

Attachment 308591

I took a block of steel and made a divot in it with a drill bit to rest the head of the pin in so that it remains rounded and doesn't flatten on the top. The first hole I went a little too deep so I made a second one.

Attachment 308592

As I'm sure has previously been stated there are many different methods and different people have their preferred method but for me using a very small ball peen hammer with many lighter strokes works better for peening because it keeps you from splitting the disc, bending the shaft or leaving divots on the scale as much. As with everything be patient with the peening and continue to use light hammer strokes in a circle until the top is nicely rounded and does not have sharp edges that can snag.

If you sand smooth the face and ball end, then polish with a buffer or with metal polish to a bright finish, you will get a smoother finish on the peen.

A lighter hammer does move metal slower and develop a smoother finish with less risk of bending the pin. I use a 2 and 4 oz hammer, making light taps. Doming the hammer face also helps to shape the metal and gives much more control.

Also doming flat washers make a spring and when peened will keep the pin under tension on both sides, they also fit curved scales better than a flat backed solid collar. I use washer from Micro Fastener and dome them with a dappling block.

Here are two hammers I use most. Note the polish and convex hammer faces. While smooth polished hammer faces will make a smooth near polished peen, you can also file, sand and polish pins to smooth even pin faces.


Attachment 308606Attachment 308607Attachment 308608Attachment 308609Attachment 308609Attachment 308610

Thanks for all the input and advice guys. Each and every one of the above replies have been of great assistance. Really appreciated.
I'll post some photos of my first attempt at scale 'sculpture' and subsequent pinning as soon as the glue and polyurethane dries.

Good advice above!
You can really take this hobby to far out levels..
You can walk in to ankle depth, or swim out to the breakers where it gets a bit rough at times. And the depths of information from technical to historical are incredible! It really is an awesome hobby for that reason, the level of immersion is all up to you.
Do you want to just shave, sending your new acquisitions out to the "lifers"? Or jump in deep? Maybe you will like working on scales and leave the metal work to the pros?
I met a guy last week who does not shave, but spends countless hours on restoration work... Just because he loves the process... He could choose any other hobby, as he has ample skills, an engineer with a background in carpentry and metal work, but chooses straight razor restoration. And then he shaves with an electric buzzer!!!
What the hell?! Lol
It all works. Just have fun!
Also there are great people. Really good people here.
My brother sells on e bay. I suggested he sell other stuff too. "Nope, been there done that, in general the SR shavers are gentlemen. They don't leave sh!tty reviews, they are patient and kind. NOT the case with other buyers/sellers."
Good luck! Have fun and ask questions.

Well said MikeT! This hobby has many tangents, but it is what makes it so much fun. A lot of places to take it too.
Like you said 'just have fun!'

Mike reminds me of a thought I had. There should be a show like Forged In Fire about straight razors. Maybe Forged In Fire Barber Shop Edition. There could be challenges for repair, rescale, restore , making scales, brushes, strops...there are a plethora of directions it could go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeT

Good advice above!
You can really take this hobby to far out levels..
You can walk in to ankle depth, or swim out to the breakers where it gets a bit rough at times. And the depths of information from technical to historical are incredible! It really is an awesome hobby for that reason, the level of immersion is all up to you.
Do you want to just shave, sending your new acquisitions out to the "lifers"? Or jump in deep? Maybe you will like working on scales and leave the metal work to the pros?
I met a guy last week who does not shave, but spends countless hours on restoration work... Just because he loves the process... He could choose any other hobby, as he has ample skills, an engineer with a background in carpentry and metal work, but chooses straight razor restoration. And then he shaves with an electric buzzer!!!
What the hell?! Lol
It all works. Just have fun!
Also there are great people. Really good people here.
My brother sells on e bay. I suggested he sell other stuff too. "Nope, been there done that, in general the SR shavers are gentlemen. They don't leave sh!tty reviews, they are patient and kind. NOT the case with other buyers/sellers."
Good luck! Have fun and ask questions.

---

Here's an anecdote to back that up. An ebay seller in our SR community sent me the wrong restoration blades; essentially he mixed up the boxes and sent mine to another SR guy who won a different auction lot. After some confusion early in the week, we figured it out. Long story short-all parties sent back the incorrect blades the next day and got the correct ones today. Ebay seller was totally transparent about the process. I got my beautiful blades (which were nicer than his pics), gave him great feedback, and will do business with him again. Honor and integrity seem so rare in our world today, but not here. Just thought I'd share proof of Mike's assertion.

Attachment 308756Attachment 308757Attachment 308758

Okay. I'm not posting this to brag but merely to honour my promise to post some pics of my 'first effort'. (I've been looking at some of the 'masterpieces' posted in 'Custom Builts and Restorations' and I'm fully aware that I've still got things to learn). Essentially I've used materials that I could readily lay my hands on. I also apologise for the quality of the pics - they were a bit rushed.
The wood used is an Australian eucalypt ('Southern Mahogany') - chosen because I grew it, milled it, and because it's a reasonably resilient and springy timber, even when cut thin.
The pin I made from brass welding rod - mainly to suit the smallest washers that I could buy locally. I realise they look a bit too chunky. Next time I'll import some more delicate and specialised hardware.
I didn't use a wedge. Rather I shaped the 'spacer' into both ends of the scales, then glued them together. So, the brass escutcheon pins used there are 'fake' - merely for aesthetics.

That's fine work for a first try. I wouldn't apologize for that at all. I like the wood. It has a nice grain to it.

I like them!
I'm also a little jealous that you can grow eucalypt.

The important thing is that they work and that you like them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by criswilson10

I like them!
I'm also a little jealous that you can grow eucalypt.

The important thing is that they work and that you like them.

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Australian eucalypts thrive in New Zealand - although, because there's more than 700 different varieties I can't say all of them do. In fact they grow faster here (in a more temperate climate) than in their native habitat, just as they also did/do in California.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phanta

Australian eucalypts thrive in New Zealand - although, because there's more than 700 different varieties I can't say all of them do. In fact they grow faster here (in a more temperate climate) than in their native habitat, just as they also did/do in California.

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That has a very nice color to it. I'm assuming that is just either naked or with clear on it and no stain is that correct?

Here is an example of that ancient southern live oak that I mentioned before.

Attachment 308760

That has no stain. Just three coats of clear

Nice work Phanta-Does it close okay without biting into either scale? Looks like it might have to be guided (as occasionally a few of mine still do, no big deal as long as you are aware of it).

I was/am fascinated by your beautiful Eucalyptus trees (or Gum trees as the Aussies called them) when we were driving around the South Island about this time last summer (your winter). I will never forget driving through a few sleepy villages and smelling gum tree fires from people's homes-just an enchanting smell. Those pine trees with the giant cones really blew me away too-beautiful country you Kiwis call home.

Paul, I like your Live Oak scales as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

That has a very nice color to it. I'm assuming that is just either naked or with clear on it and no stain is that correct?

Here is an example of that ancient southern live oak that I mentioned before.

Attachment 308760

That has no stain. Just three coats of clear

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It has only clear polyurethane on it - out of a spray can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Nice work Phanta-Does it close okay without biting into either scale? Looks like it might have to be guided (as occasionally a few of mine still do, no big deal as long as you are aware of it).

I was/am fascinated by your beautiful Eucalyptus trees (or Gum trees as the Aussies called them) when we were driving around the South Island about this time last summer (your winter). I will never forget driving through a few sleepy villages and smelling gum tree fires from people's homes-just an enchanting smell. Those pine trees with the giant cones really blew me away too-beautiful country you Kiwis call home.

Paul, I like your Live Oak scales as well.

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It pretty much slips in between the scales okay at the present time. When the camera battery charges up I'll see if I can take a couple more 'explanatory' shots.

I found another source for horn. I've been looking for honey and it seems like everything is either heavily streaked or the sellers were out.
Attachment 310208
I got these from guitarpartsandmore.com These four pieces were $34 including the shipping which comes out to $8.50 each. That's a sight lower than some of the other pieces I've seen. In fairness there is a certain amount of warping to a couple and one piece has a a little delamination on the edge but I can work around that. They are 2 in x 8 in by .15 in which comes to about 3/16. It's always good to have options.

As a side note, when I took them out of the package my dogs were begging for them. Something to keep in mind. If you have razors with horn scales your dogs may view them as a treat if they can get to them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

... a thrift store clipboard will make several scales, great for making scale templates.

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Great idea... so I've been looking around for a suitable clipboard to chop up. I found some in the perfect material, a hard glossy plastic which would pass as an imitation of celluloid, but the colours were wrong, they were all transparent pastel shades. Others I've seen have been a different, softer plastic, maybe polyester? It didn't look suitable for scales.

Anyway, the question is, what is the name of that hard glossy plastic I'm looking for? It is noticeably harder than acrylic sheet, for example.

You said it....acrylic.
Another would be, lexan. Very strong stuff, and takes a bit more to shine up.

Stores that carry school supplies should have an array of colors, I'd think.

Maybe large hardware stores would carry sheets, or cut offs from custom jobs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by outback

You said it....acrylic...

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So it is acrylic? The plastic I have in mind is the hard, brittle one that feels cold to the touch. Not sure if that is a kind of acrylic, but in my memory acrylic is not so brittle and not so cold to the touch. I am looking for plain black, seems I can find every colour of clipboard under the sun except that... maybe it is time to consider pastel pink scales...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

...

Here is an example of that ancient southern live oak that I mentioned before.

Attachment 308760

That has no stain. Just three coats of clear

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Though I am not often a fan of wood scales on razors, I have to say that looks really good.

Thanks Monty. I love this wood. It stands up like a big skeleton in the woods. This is what the logs look like.
Attachment 311266
Attachment 311267
Attachment 311268
It's not easy to work with. First of all as you can see it is not something you can cut planks out of with all the crazy cracks and twists. Also it is so hard you will smoke a 10" carbide saw blade with it. I have a cabinet shop professional table saw and it makes me nervous cutting it. One because it's treacherous and two because it bogs the motor so much. I have started using the band saw and just let it take the 10 minutes to cut a piece. Here's another set I made from it. I thought it fit well on this blade with all the patina.
Attachment 311269
Attachment 311270
Attachment 311271

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I found another source for horn. I've been looking for honey and it seems like everything is either heavily streaked or the sellers were out.
Attachment 310208
I got these from guitarpartsandmore.com These four pieces were $34 including the shipping which comes out to $8.50 each. That's a sight lower than some of the other pieces I've seen. In fairness there is a certain amount of warping to a couple and one piece has a a little delamination on the edge but I can work around that. They are 2 in x 8 in by .15 in which comes to about 3/16. It's always good to have options.

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What does delamination on the edge mean?

The edge starting to split. A little CA can glue it if it's a lot as long as you get it clean between. But sanding a curve on the edge of your scales or trimming the shapes out around the delam can be done if the pieces are large enough.

Horn is made up of layers of keratin. As it decomposes it separates along the layers. It also can come apart from being flattened out. The layers are laminated one on top of the other. When they come apart they delaminate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STF

What does delamination on the edge mean?

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The others explained it well, but who doesn't like picture examples? ;)

Attachment 324440
This is the worst I have on hand, blonde horn shows it best.
You could catch those edges with a fingernail and peel them up. Also, if it goes deep into the horn, it kinda looks like bubbles inside.


When it gets really bad, the whole surface can get rough and start flaking up
Attachment 324441


If you have horn scales you want to keep for another hundred years, keep the poor things hydrated with a bit of neatsfoot oil every now and then, and this will be much less likely to happen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

One often overlooked dimension is the thickness of the scale, less than 1/8th inch, thinner is better also remember the scales should be under tension at all times, so material comes into play. Thick scales make honing, shaving and especially stropping difficult and ungainly. Add large pins and the razor quickly becomes awkward.

The good news is, un-pinning and pinning is relatively simple and inexpensive, cut your pins from brass or nickel rod. If you buy or make your own scales and want to learn to pin and un-pin, practice pinning tongue depressors to your razor. You can also practice different un-pinning techniques, I drill or file pins depending on if I am trying to save the scales.

If you are replacing broken scales filing off the pin tops with a good file is quick and easy. There are lots of good post and videos on pinning. Pinning with brass is easy, so practice with brass first. You will learn a lot by doing, pinning your razor with tongue depressors a couple times will make the actual pinning much less stressful.

Making scales, horn is probably the easiest to work with simple hand tools, saws, files, scraper and sandpaper. The least expensive wood or plastic, a thrift store clipboard will make several scales, great for making scale templates.

---

I'm with Euclid. I file the peened head off, if there are washers. Some old ivory scaled razors are pinned without washers. When washers are present, just file down into the washer a bit, and then you can pop the top scale free with a small screwdriver. Spread the scales and press down with the flat of the screwdriver on the filed end to get it started out the other scale. Sometimes a few taps with a hammer are needed. Grab it from the other side with needlenose pliers, rotate and pull. Wa lah. Some guys use flush cutters. I find it difficult to do this. YMMV.

The standard modern pin diameter is 1/16". For your first practice piece, you might want to use brass rod. It is softer and easier to work with. A little too soft for sustained use, IMHO, but it has been done. Nickel-Silver is the standard material and you can find it online easy enough. For a trial pinning, you can get size 0-80 bolts and nuts from www.microfasteners.com. They have a variety of size 0 washers, too. No domed ones, but if you want domed, you can easily make a die set to dome flat ones, or buy a set already made. Domed washers can be found, but not from microfasteners. Like brass rod, the microfastener brass bolts are rather soft. However I have installed them for trial pinnings on cheap beater razors, got it right first time, and then simply cut and peened the bolt end over the nut or over washers only. It ain't purty but it works.

Trial pinning is especially good to check and correct proper centering. To "steer" a blade away from one scale toward the center, sand or file the inner face of the scales like this. On the scale toward which you want to steer the razor, thin it slightly in the area adjacent to the pivot pin hole, for about and inch toward the big end. On the scale that you want to steer the blade away from, do the thinning between the pivot hole and the small end. Easy does it. Sand and try, sand and try, softly softly catchee monkey.

Maggards has some scale materials. Some interesting laminates. You can make your own micarta, Cut your own wood. Ebony pool cue turning blanks can be sawn into razor scale blanks. Horn is widely available, and bone. Cow bone is used but for higher quality, go with camel or giraffe bone. Bleached, dyed, natural, all are available. I like camel bone because it isn't expensive and it looks and feels a lot like ivory. Doesn't warp as badly as horn. Horn can be difficult but few things are more attractive on a razor than some nice honey horn scales. For wedges, same material or acrylic, which is very easy to work with, or lead if you want to be traditional and are very careful and use proper PPE and hazmat working practices. Often you can find new or NOS replacement scales. I put a set of Filarmonica scales on one of my customized Gold Dollars once, just for laffs. I called it the FilGoldDollarmonica. I think I still have that razor somewhere, actually. I believe those scales came from Revisor. You may find other classic replacement scales there.

Oh and get ready for more howls of outrage, but my peening hammer is a spoon. Load it with an ounce or two lump of JB Weld and you have an excellent pin whacker that won't miss the pin and crack a scale. Whack whack whack whack that pin! Sharp whacks deform the pin into a head. Ponderous blows with a big hammer can bend the pin in the middle. When I say big, I mean like a 4oz tack hammer or similar. Grind a tiny divot into the top of your anvil or a heavy bench vise for the bottom end of the pin while you are whacking the top. FLip and do the other end. Back and forth, until you get the tension that you want. Acrylic is good for practicing. It makes nice looking scales and it is cheap as dirt, (www.tapplastics.com is my source) but it WILL crack or shatter if you go nuts on it.

What ever works, notice the thin handle on my clock makers hammer.

I have a collection of hammers, many clock maker hammers with thin handles, some with even thinner handles. The thin handles allow you to make a rhythm as you lightly tap the pin, held between thumb and forefinger and produce a finer finish.

Here turning the pin,(chuck) allows you to keep the hammer stationary and rotate the work, and make micro adjustments by twisting your wrist and changing where the hammer lands and or produce a glancing finishing taps.

I would imagine the spoon would work much the same.


Attachment 324451

Yeah a big collet chuck is great for starting a head on one end. I forgot to mention that. I don't know where my spare drillpress chuck is. I been using a pair of vise grips but a chuck is better. I have in the past just started with the bottom end in the divot in my bench vise which is my peening anvil, pin already running through razor and scales, (taped together tightly) and doing both ends one at a time that way, but it is easier to form or partially form a head first, on one end.

If you saw my post in the Replacing scales thread then you saw my peening hammer. It is a 1.5-2.0 oz. ball peen. I don't remember which but it's tiny. I do basically the same as stated with turning the chuck but I turn the whole razor around the block which turns the pin. I tap like I am trying not the hit it. More light taps in a circle around the pin makes a head and doesn't bend it much better than trying to hammer it quickly. You'll find too that as you hammer one side the other side gets rounded and, more importantly, smoothed in the divot on the other side.

Edit: I like the spoon ideas though.