Thread: Washers

Yup, you can make them look exactly like a cupped collar, and a domed collar will spread out the peening force over a larger area of the scale to the outer surface of the collar.

A domed collar will conform to the shape of a curved scale and the edges will be flush to the scale.

Additionally you can tailor the size, (dimension) to match any collar, by turning down the size of the washer easily buy bolting it onto a mandrel, (nut, bolt and spacer tube) and chucking in a drill or drill press and holding a file to the edge to the desired size, as demonstrated in the polishing sequence of the post, linked to in the post. Instead of polish use a file or sandpaper.

Years ago, Voidmonster handmade (no lathe) a die from a steel rod, chucked in a drill press, turned and formed triple stacked collars, from brass sheet. The collars came out very well. I’m pretty sure he posted about his process.

This was before AJ started selling his stacked washers. I’m sure you could do the same with small cupped collars, but why. Domed washers look the same and work fine.

AJ makes nice stuff, can’t go wrong with his collars. I use his triple stacked collars, small ones, I dome small flat washers, made tons of them, buy flat washers from Micro Fasteners.

Thanks for the responses...

Originally Posted by BobH

This is just a guess. If you use a flat washer when you do your pinning that still puts most of the pressure on the edges of the hole in the scales. I believe domed washers would transfer more pressure away from the edges of the hole leading to less likelihood of cracks radiating out from the hole edges from too much pressure. Besides the domed ones are more aesthetically pleasing.

Bob

That makes a lot of sense!

Originally Posted by Gasman

... Just keep in mind that if you do make your own with a punch or dapping block of some kind, you need smaller washers too to put inside the cupped washers.

Interesting! I have never found smaller washers inside cup washers when dismantling vintage razors, although I have never dismantled older C19 razors with those big domed washers.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

I’m sure you could do the same with small cupped collars, but why. Domed washers look the same and work fine.

This is the key piece of information, thanks!

A question about doming washers, does the doming process alter the size significantly? Is there any need to start with washers a size smaller?

cup Washer and the washer that goes inside the cup.

Since you're asking about the functionality the domed washers are somewhat stronger - the same principle of why an egg is very strong under compression from outside but quite easy for the baby bird to break from the inside, or the arched ceilings in big old buildings like cathedrals or palaces.

I don't know if it matters that much for razors, but may be it does. It's fairly easy to find out though:

Take two razors that are the same, e.g. from a set of 7 or a pair, or something else. Pin one of them with flat washers, the other with domed (at the pivot), making sure to tighten them the same tension. (The way I measure the tension is to flip the razor with the blade down and tighten it just until the blade stops opening under its weight.)
Once the both razors are tightened the same alternate using them for few months. That way over time both razors should get the sam amount of opening and closing. And then if one razor stays tighter longer than the other then we can suspect that it's washers are slightly better functionally. Unless we've missed some other factor that's different for both, but that's why if several people do the same experiment with a bunch of razors we may be able to make a statistically significant conclusion

Once the experiment is over, if you're a bit OCD repin the razors to have the same washers again, so they match

Well, you've gotten lots of good answers; either can fit the bill for most applications, and it's mostly about aesthetics, how closely you want to replicate originals, etc. I too have used just about all of Austin's collars with success, and have also gotten excellent products from this Romanian seller on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/sr_manufact...1&_ipg=&_from=Their products are excellent, and it might get to you quicker in Germany; takes forever across the pond.

Originally Posted by Montgomery

A question about doming washers, does the doming process alter the size significantly? Is there any need to start with washers a size smaller?

That is a good question and one I never worried about. I guess it would depend on how much or how little the washer stretches during doming. I'd guess they may shrink a bit in diameter. Flat washers are inexpensive so you could always dome a few different sizes to see if they do.

Bob

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Well, you've gotten lots of good answers; either can fit the bill for most applications, and it's mostly about aesthetics, how closely you want to replicate originals, etc. I too have used just about all of Austin's collars with success, and have also gotten excellent products from this Romanian seller on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/sr_manufact...1&_ipg=&_from=Their products are excellent, and it might get to you quicker in Germany; takes forever across the pond.

Thats the guy I was talking about with the solid collars. Thanks for the link Aaron.

A question about doming washers, does the doming process alter the size significantly? Is there any need to start with washers a size smaller?

It depends on how much you dome the washer, it will get slightly smaller, not larger. As you peen, it may flatten out slightly.
The outer dimension will become slightly smaller, and the inside of the hole also slightly smaller on the bottom edge as the top of the washer is stretched and the bottom compressed. The ID hole should be enlarged to allow for the pin to expand.

I also enlarge the pin hole in the scale and taper it, so it is larger at the top to allow for expansion, a tighter fit and reducing the chance of splitting the scale.

Domed washers will bite into a soft scale, plastic or horn at the outer edge because the edge is where the pressure is, so the collar is under spring tension that can minutely flex as opposed to a flat washer that is under even pressure. As a razor is opened, it flexes at the pivot and pressure varies depending on the position, due to the tapered tang.

If you dome your own, you can control the amount of doming/curve height and width. It only takes a couple taps to dome a washer, I usually dome to a progressively smaller size divot to get the size and amount of dome I want.