To Unpin or Not to Unpin, That is My Question

So I'm fairly new to razor restoration, but I have piened a LOT of rivets, so up till now I've been fairly cavalier about unpinning razors to clean and restore them. But I have some nice older razors that have original pins in them, and I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the extra bother to try to preserve them.

The blades are rusty and the scales need a LOT of cleaning - and in many cases there's corrosion and/or gunk around the pivot. They'd all be very easy to clean up if I unpinned them...

Before I unpin them for easy cleaning, however, I thought perhaps I should ask whether there is an intelligent way to clean those up while preserving the pins?

Does the extra work seem worth it?

What are people's thoughts on unpinning, and tricks for avoiding it, if that is desirable?

Thanks!

Its always good to unpined so you can give the scales a good cleaning and polishing. If they are horn and dry you can soak them in neetsfoot oil. It is also easier b to clean any rust on the shank at the pivot area.

To use or not to use and just look at. That is my question....What are you waiting for? Unpin them suckers, clean them up, and let's move them to your rotation!

There's a right way and a wrong way and if you don't take em out you'll never really clean them out and it will look it.

If you got the skill and tools just do it.

If there is no rust between the scales and you could not tell when done whether they were unpinned or not then leave them. On the other hand, the pins themselves are not really the thing that's usually best left intact, it's the collars. If you can unpin without losing or damaging them or, as in my case, have them soaking in a shot glass and have the wife toss them down the sink, then repinning using the same collars is a non-issue. That is of course if you are proficient at pinning.

If crud under the scales is what you are concerned about you can use dental floss and 3M Marine to clean around the pivot. I also use a fingernail brush and plain old soap and water to clean in between the scales.

Some light paste polish, an old toothbrush, Q-tips smashed flat with a hammer......Dental floss. Rinse and brush. Hair drier and look.
Go again if necessary.
Don't ruin anything nice. Get some junkers to practice with.

Some things on unpinning and pinning in the stickies way up top on this subforum.

Thanks all - good advice on both sides.

I'll look through the sticky posts and see if that helps any.

I appreciate all of the answers!

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Originally Posted by Johntoad57

To use or not to use and just look at. That is my question....What are you waiting for? Unpin them suckers, clean them up, and let's move them to your rotation!

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+1 for just looking at them but I have been told in not so many subtle ways that is very frowned upon round these parts.......lol

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Originally Posted by Johntoad57

To use or not to use and just look at. That is my question....What are you waiting for? Unpin them suckers, clean them up, and let's move them to your rotation!

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Only to use. I don't have any that I don't use. But that's a good distinction.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

If there is no rust between the scales and you could not tell when done whether they were unpinned or not then leave them. On the other hand, the pins themselves are not really the thing that's usually best left intact, it's the collars. If you can unpin without losing or damaging them or, as in my case, have them soaking in a shot glass and have the wife toss them down the sink, then repinning using the same collars is a non-issue. That is of course if you are proficient at pinning.

If crud under the scales is what you are concerned about you can use dental floss and 3M Marine to clean around the pivot. I also use a fingernail brush and plain old soap and water to clean in between the scales.

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I have had very little luck saving collars, but I'm going to look through all of the pinned posts and see if there are better methods than I've been using so far.

Thanks!

Well when I say collars largely what I am referring to are the dome collars or beehive collars. The small ring collars often can't be saved. I still try to save them if I can but I'd rather replace.them.with ones that will look nice than reuse ones that are damaged. A big portion of it is removing them surgically rather than grinding them down to the scale but often even then they have been squashed or split during the pinning process.

The dome, beehive and other ornamental ones I always try to save.

Saving the collars takes practice. This is why you should start with junkers or razors that you don't care if you destroy the collars or scales. As unpinning can be tough to do cleanly. I use a drill press and centering bits. A device to hold scales, magnification, and a bright light. But that's what I need to do the job. Not everyone has to go that far. I try and reuse all collars. Even just the tiny cups as they can be saved and reused too.
Here is a tip for ya. Polish the collars before unpinning. This saves you a lot of work trying to hold the tiny little bastards for cleaning when they are loose.

Collars can be easily made at home and there should be threads about that on here. Also you can buy replacement collars, even fancy ones, on oboy.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Gasman

Saving the collars takes practice. This is why you should start with junkers or razors that you don't care if you destroy the collars or scales. As unpinning can be tough to do cleanly. I use a drill press and centering bits. A device to hold scales, magnification, and a bright light. But that's what I need to do the job. Not everyone has to go that far. I try and reuse all collars. Even just the tiny cups as they can be saved and reused too.
Here is a tip for ya. Polish the collars before unpinning. This saves you a lot of work trying to hold the tiny little bastards for cleaning when they are loose.

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Can you post a picture of the device you use for holding them? This has been one of my biggest problems with restoration.

To date I've mostly ground off my pins and replaced the collars with domed washers I got from some fellow on Ebay (I don't remember who, but I think I got the name on this forum, so...)

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Originally Posted by BobH

Collars can be easily made at home and there should be threads about that on here. Also you can buy replacement collars, even fancy ones, on oboy.

Bob

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This has been my solution so far.

A large part of me thinks that all of the fuss of saving collars and stuff is a bit unnecessary, since I can buy very similar replacements online...

But another part of me is a big snob that wants as much of my razors as possible to be original parts.

I'm just figuring out the cost/benefit analysis of which part is worth listening to...

:D

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Originally Posted by skald

This has been my solution so far.

A large part of me thinks that all of the fuss of saving collars and stuff is a bit unnecessary, since I can buy very similar replacements online...

But another part of me is a big snob that wants as much of my razors as possible to be original parts.

I'm just figuring out the cost/benefit analysis of which part is worth listening to...

:D

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Consider that straight razors were just tools not even valuable enough to have serial numbers and made in the thousands if not millions. Being all original does not matter much. The only exceptions that I can think of is if you are buying NIB razors or a very rare specimen. In most cases I would not loose any sleep over the decision and do what is convenient.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

Consider that straight razors were just tools not even valuable enough to have serial numbers and made in the thousands if not millions. Being all original does not matter much. The only exceptions that I can think of is if you are buying NIB razors or a very rare specimen. In most cases I would not loose any sleep over the decision and do what is convenient.

Bob

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This is totally accurate... But worthless object + time = priceless artifact.

Broken pot shards and bone fragments that were literally tossed in the fire are now invaluable lenses into ancient ways of life. Bills of lading that were used to wipe people's butts are now priceless sources of information.

So you're right - they're just things, but dealing with old things always has a more complicated set of choices.

I realize that a 100 or 200 year old razor isn't the Rosetta stone or the Gilgamesh tablets or anything, but they're still more valuable as artifacts than they were as manufactured items originally.

Then again, cleaning without unpinning is a giant pain in my ass, so there's also that...

XD

Old n rare....yes, save the collars. Others are a dime a dozen.

I use a rechargeable screw driver with the 1/4" adapter, that excepts the 1/4" lugged drill bits, for drilling pins. A magnifying glass so to see I'm keeping it centered.

Once the collar comes off, I use a 1/16" drift punch to push the pin thru.

I've had no luck with using a drill press.

Go slow, and check with magnification...its that easy.

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Originally Posted by skald

This is totally accurate... But worthless object + time = priceless artifact.

Broken pot shards and bone fragments that were literally tossed in the fire are now invaluable lenses into ancient ways of life. Bills of lading that were used to wipe people's butts are now priceless sources of information.

So you're right - they're just things, but dealing with old things always has a more complicated set of choices.

I realize that a 100 or 200 year old razor isn't the Rosetta stone or the Gilgamesh tablets or anything, but they're still more valuable as artifacts than they were as manufactured items originally.

Then again, cleaning without unpinning is a giant pain in my ass, so there's also that...

XD

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Have it your way. I still think you are placing too much value on a common artefact that is still in production.

Bob

Just think.......All that gunk, filth and muck in there is OTHER people's crud. YUK!!! You have the skills, so unpin 'em and clean 'em out thoroughly. It's my crud or no crud. :)

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Originally Posted by BobH

Have it your way. I still think you are placing too much value on a common artefact that is still in production.

Bob

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I find it interesting that straight razor users/collectors place such a premium on the blade but not the scales.

Holding the razor while I drill...
I have a couple of 8" square boards that have curved channels ground into them the size of razor scales. I set the razor closed into the channels of the one that fits best. I still have to hold it and pivot the razor a little while drilling, but I can normally drill it until the collar sticks to the centering bit. At that time the head is drilled off to the point that I can wiggle the scale with my fingers and separate the pin out of the top scale. Take off the blade then push the rest of the pin through the back scale. This takes practice. I have broken many scales and I've slipped the bit a few times and that marks the scale. But after a few, I figured out how to do it.

Some people will just grind the head off and grind the collar away and that is fine. Others cut them and some get lucky enough to punch them through after drilling most of the head away. When I punch I normally crack and break so I stopped doing that. I have unpinned enough now that I take the extra effort to save all collars. Now I'm not a machine and I have wasted a lot of collars. But I like to take my time now and see if I can save them. The worst part is after you put some polish on them and get them cleaned. Then drill them out and save them. After fixing up the scales and blade and starting to put them back together I will drop one on the carpet. It happens. This is why I save all I can. LOL.

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Originally Posted by 32t

I find it interesting that straight razor users/collectors place such a premium on the blade but not the scales.

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What I said goes for the whole razor, not just the scales.

Bob

The prevailing MO these days is use it until it malfunctions then throw it away and get a new one. In the days when straight razors were in their hay day the MO was repair what you have because manufacturing, marketing and shipping is a BIG expense. Take that for what you will.

You could say, "Well, this is how they did it then so that is how I'm going to do it now." OR, you could say, "That was then. This is now. Things are different and the old rules dont apply."

You have to make your own judgement call on that. I will try to save what I can within reason and within what seems reasonable. In my business I charge $100/hr unless it's a fraternity house (I live in a university town) then it's $150/hr. It makes no sense to pay me $150 to fix a mechanism that costs $100 especially when you have something used when I'm done. That is assuming, of course, that we are comparing apples to apples. Of course if we are talking about a 100 year old mechanism I will ALWAYS advise you to fix it for historical reasons, unless it is beyond repair and I will give away labor because that is not for the customer, It is for me and out of respect for the mechanism that has lasted that long.

Take that for what it is worth, considering it comes from a technician with over 40 years of experience in his business.

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Originally Posted by BobH

Have it your way. I still think you are placing too much value on a common artefact that is still in production.

Bob

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Haha! I think it's pretty clear that it is not the rational part of me that cares.

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Originally Posted by Tathra11

Just think.......All that gunk, filth and muck in there is OTHER people's crud. YUK!!! You have the skills, so unpin 'em and clean 'em out thoroughly. It's my crud or no crud. :)

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Haha! Okay, you win this thread.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

The prevailing MO these days is use it until it malfunctions then throw it away and get a new one. In the days when straight razors were in their hay day the MO was repair what you have because manufacturing, marketing and shipping is a BIG expense. Take that for what you will.

You could say, "Well, this is how they did it then so that is how I'm going to do it now." OR, you could say, "That was then. This is now. Things are different and the old rules dont apply."

You have to make your own judgement call on that. I will try to save what I can within reason and within what seems reasonable. In my business I charge $100/hr unless it's a fraternity house (I live in a university town) then it's $150/hr. It makes no sense to pay me $150 to fix a mechanism that costs $100 especially when you have something used when I'm done. That is assuming, of course, that we are comparing apples to apples. Of course if we are talking about a 100 year old mechanism I will ALWAYS advise you to fix it for historical reasons, unless it is beyond repair and I will give away labor because that is not for the customer, It is for me and out of respect for the mechanism that has lasted that long.

Take that for what it is worth, considering it comes from a technician with over 40 years of experience in his business.

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Just out of interest and because I've never seen a Frat House, why do you charge them $50 more per hour?

Just watch this movie...then you'll understand. :roflmao

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Originally Posted by outback

Just watch this movie...then you'll understand. :roflmao

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That pretty much sums it up. That movie is no exaggeration. In fact it pales in comparison to some of the stupid stuff I've seen them do. A lot of them think that's how they're supposed to act. I used to get aggregated with them. Now I just shake my head. Do what you want. Just write the check.

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Originally Posted by outback

Just watch this movie...then you'll understand. :roflmao

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My favorite movie!

I have seen that movie actually, years ago now and thought it was very funny but assumed it was made up TV stuff.

Now, if you want funny, Blazing Saddles and The Life Of Brian :tu