Thread: Discussion: Restoration Chat on IRC

Since we switched the tuesday restoration chat from the now broken flash to irc it seems like there were some complains.
I was partly involved in the switch over, so I feel responsible to work on getting things to run as smoothly as possible. I'm thinking this thread would be a good way to discuss various options in case we want to change things to make them better.

History:
As the community kept growing the flash chat seems unable to support the sunday chats, so after a brief stint with a php based chat, the main SRP chat got moved over to IRC on at the #srp channel on freenode. This has been fairly used resource and has become a place where newbies pop up 24/7 and can almost always get help. In addition that's where the 'official' sunday night SRP chat is happening.
For a while the old flash chat was used by some die-hards and also for the restoration chat on tuesday night, which is generally small enough that still works with flash.

Now the flash is already disfunctional and the natural place to move the tuesday chat was on freenode.

We chose to have a separate channel dedicated to it because it leaves the main #srp channel free for people who are not interested in restorations, and most importantly newbies who can continue to come and ask whatever questions they may have.
This way it is functionally equivalent to having a separate restoration chat as it was up to this point.

The main complaint seems to be that having two different channels within a single application is confusing. It seems to me that if the restoration conversations are to merge with the rest it will be even more confusing.
The way I see it is that a person either can handle multiple conversations at the same time, or they cannot. Having separate channels allows for a person who falls in the second category to only join one of them. It seems to be simplifying things if anything.
In fact that's one of the reason the tuesday chat was kept in a separate place to start with - so that it gets dedicated to restoraton only and not helping newbies with choosing gear. troubleshooting problems, or just general chit-chat. I was actually surprised to see some of the main advocates for dedicated restoration chat now complain that it is separate from the main one.

One thing that I believe is completely wrong to do is to usurp the #srp channel for restoration talk on tuesdays and forbid non-restoration related chat in it.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the subject. It's been already 2 weeks with the new system, so any feedback would be good too.

I'm torn between liking the one-stop-shop of #srp and liking the more focused discussion of #srp-resto.

My only concern with having restoration chat in the main #srp room is the policing it might take to keep it focused. Not that resto is always 100% focused, but it is a specific topic. I wonder if having some type of moderator during that time in #srp could do the trick?

I'm not opposed to having two rooms, but it would make life a bit easier to keep everything in one place. I do like having events there that draw people in (resto chat, Lynn stopping by on Sunday's, Lee...um always there). It's a cool place to meet the folks here in a more direct setting. Also a great place to get questions answered quickly by some really smart people.

Since we are going to discuss this I think maybe little history is in order...

Chat in general, was less then 2 years ago, the most under utilized part of this forum...
Sunday Night Chat was the only time anybody was in there, period...

One person started this whole chat thing going, that was Nickleking he posted a thread, saying the from that point forward, he would always sign into chat when he signed on.. Some of us thought that was a pretty darn good idea and the original Chat Crazies were started, we hung out in the chat room when ever we signed into SRP....The old Flash was great for that because of the volume controls, we could browse the forum, yet know when someone, came or went, or when they posted in chat...Most of the original members of that group are the ones you still find in chat almost every day...

The restore chat started on a whim to get another dedicated chat night going, and for our love of talking about our projects.. I started the chat on Tuesday because that was my normal day off work, so I knew that 90% of the time I could be there, at first it was pretty much just Philadeph, Floppyshoes and I in there talking about what we were working on, but it grew fairly quickly, with people stopping in, and talking and asking questions...
Within 1 month we were having a gathering of between 15-30 people every Tuesday night...

When Flash was dropped as the main room, we kept the Restore chat there on Tuesday, mainly because of the color text feature, and the IM feature, and maybe just a little tradition thrown in... We tried to move it to IRC once, but it didn't really work out, mainly because of the reasons that Gugi pointed out... Restore was one thing, and general chat was another....
It has been going over a year now and until 2 weeks ago has always met in the Flash chat room... Unfortunately times change and with a fast growing community, (keep in mind I joined in June 2007 and we had 3200 members) we need to grow with it...
I do believe that Restore should always be separate from the main chat, heck some of what we discuss is pretty boring, to anybody that really isn't into it. Leaving the main chat room open for others, that want to talk about everything else shaving related, or just general BS... The Restore chat is open to anybody that wants to come on in, and even just lurk in there and listen, we discuss many other topics besides just making scales... Those of you that are struggling with honing should really take advantage of the experience in this chat....

In closing, I have every intention of continuing to be online in chat every Tuesday night for Restore chat, so I hope everyone that has been coming continues to come, and anyone that wants to join, feel free....

Thanks

Ah. I smell technology. Even better than napalm, if you ask me...

Originally Posted by gugi

The main complaint seems to be that having two different channels within a single application is confusing. It seems to me that if the restoration conversations are to merge with the rest it will be even more confusing.

As far as the application problem is concerned, that is only a matter of the software used. Using one of the dedicated programmes recommended in http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...-srp-chat.html rather than the web interface (see "Chat" in the menu bar above) will quickly remedy that. As in "detach window", for example.

Originally Posted by gugi

The way I see it is that a person either can handle multiple conversations at the same time, or they cannot. Having separate channels allows for a person who falls in the second category to only join one of them. It seems to be simplifying things if anything.

In fact that's one of the reason the tuesday chat was kept in a separate place to start with - so that it gets dedicated to restoraton only and not helping newbies with choosing gear. troubleshooting problems, or just general chit-chat. I was actually surprised to see some of the main advocates for dedicated restoration chat now complain that it is separate from the main one.

Well, in this case, you can actually have a cake and eat it, too. Not quite sure whether freenode's ircd understands -L, but we can always use a bot in #srp to that effect (i.e. link the two channels). That way, users of #srp can ignore the bot, and not be disturbed by #srp-resto (or whatever the channel is called - I would know if you guys didn't do all the good things while I'm sound asleep, you know?).

Originally Posted by gugi

One thing that I believe is completely wrong to do is to usurp the #srp channel for restoration talk on tuesdays and forbid non-restoration related chat in it.

Oh, I would be most interested to learn who would want to enforce that policy, and how.

Originally Posted by gugi

Anyways, I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the subject. It's been already 2 weeks with the new system, so any feedback would be good too.

I'm all for it. Not necessarily because I agree with anything you say, or understand the problem to begin with. But because once in a while, I feel this urge to agree with something. Anything, really. It'll pass, don't worry.

P.S. From a user perspective, I think it would be beneficial if the logs of the restoration chat were stored and made available for future reference. Of course, only after a warning notice to that effect has been added to the /motd.

Here's how I see it:

When the original Resto chat was in Flash, that was the only chat room available. At the time, that flashchat was technically just 'the barbershop'– a SRP chat room. We would go there on Tuesday nights for a 'themed' resto chat, but it was never policed and NEVER held to just resto chat topics. We would get new members asking various questions ranging from how to replace scales to who watched last night's football game. There wasn't a problem.

When IRC chat came around the resto chat stayed in Flash for several reasons.

1. Nostalgia
2. Glen has terrible computer skills
3. Doc would not enter the new IRC chat
4. etc.

None of the reasons to keep resto chat in a 'separate' room were– to my knowledge– because members who had no restoration interest could have a separate dedicated room.

Now fast forward to today. I don't see a point in having two IRC chat rooms for two separate topics. First of all– it is all talk about straight razors and I haven't heard anyone say that they would not like to hear chat about restoration work– new member or not. Secondly– two weeks ago when this idea came into play there was indeed confusion. Not because there were two rooms, but because different people were having different conversations in the different rooms. Most members from regular chat were in resto chat and vice versa.

When a new member from Canada comes into the only chat room he knows and sees Floppyshoes there available to answer a question about Northern honing services but gets no reply because Dan is busy in resto chat, who does that help? I don't see a need for policing of a topic either. If Tuesday night is advertised as resto chat, then the people who want to talk about that stuff specifically will make a point to be there. The chat should then naturally go in that direction.

Might I also remind everyone that sometimes the restoration chat has no talk about razors at all! This is never a problem– Flashchat or IRC. Gugi might be talking about Russian mail ordered brides and Syslight might be talking about which whiskey he likes best. That is fine. Then someone all of a sudden brings up a current project and the restoration talk begins.

I see it more as a time and place where you KNOW people will be there who have an interest in discussing a certain topic. No need for policing of that topic, etc. The situation seems similar to all kinds of talk about modern honing techniques and 75k edges being serrated too roughly seen through a 300x powered microscope when guys used to use an 8k and be happy with it.

I can see pros and cons of both, they have been already mentioned, and granted, I do not know all the details or the history. However, what I would like to see is that we all come to an agreement on this soon. I understand that like every family there often disagreements and differences in approach but every good family also finds the way to get over them. I really appreciate this place more when I see people reaching out to build consensus on issues that generate a bit of "discussion", this is what makes SRP a great forum for all of us. Let's continue to build on this idea and try to leave personal preferences aside. I know we can and WILL!!!!! do it. Perhaps what I am trying to say is that the longer we let this thing go, the more is going to hurt the forum at the end, let's play it smart.

Al raz.

My nephew and niece go to the same elementary school. Every now and then, they have "pajama day", where all the kids can go dressed in pajamas. Lots of them do, some don't. The ones that do have a good time, the ones that don't, well, they have a good time too.

This is how I've always viewed the Restoration Chat. It's a special day where the concentration is on Resto, but all other chat is welcome too. Honestly, several hours of just resto chat pretty much never happens. There's only so much you can say, sometimes... ya know? Other times, things get into politics, mail order brides, which flavor of the flinstones vitamins taste best, and all other dumb things... (just don't talk about kids.... alex leaves when you talk about kids... )

I think most people are excited to answer questions about how to hold the razor when going ATG under your chin, or why you should strop with an X pattern, or why Straights give less irritation than Mach 3's.

I'll give a big +1 to Philadelph on this one.

I've got to reread this thread in greater detail when I have more time. I have been one of those people that has updated Java, whatever else I can think of and I still have big problems trying to chat with you guys. For the life of me I can't seem to get it to work even when I've tried Glen's backdoor steps in how to try to get in there.

Chris L

You've taken computer advice from Glen? It'll never work for you.....

As one of the new guys that comes in regularly to ask questions in both standard and resto chat, I was squarely in the 2 room camp. Having read Philadelph's post, call me a convert.
I've always found it confusing to join different rooms, still have no idea how to do a private chat, etc. And even when Resto was in a separate place, I had two windows open with both resto and standard chat going at the same time anyway. I think it's pretty rare that there are too many conversations going on at once. Usually we can all stay on one topic, and i really don't see the need for policing.